New Pain after fusion

[dridobits]

Hi, Im a little over one year post multi level fusion. Im having severe buttock muscle spasms that muscle relaxants dont touch. I tried stretching it out but that only made it worse. Been flat on my back for a week now in terrible pain. Doc cut me way back on my meds as she thinks I dont need them post fusion. Im wondering why Id be having severe buttock spasms and if anyone else has any ideas. I will call PT tomorrow to try to talk with them.

[jsewell]

YOu wrote a little over a year, yet the date you wrote is Nov 2010. I still get muscle spasms from my sept 24,2010 long fusion and osteotomy. so if it really is only 4 months i would still expect this. but not the level of pain you are experiencing. What does your surgeon say?
I'm about to ask my pm doc this week if she thinks i will be on pain meds forever.
Hope you get help soon, it is not good to be stuck in bed.
judy

[dshobbies]

Wow, after all you've been through, a new pain now appears? I could be way off base here and you might want to consult Mark for more specifics, but it could be your piniformas muscle?????

If memory serves, and I'll tell you it's beginning to fail me big time - I've read about this before. Give Mark a call -

Dale

[Maria]

I too wonder about piraformis pain although am wondering if the cutting back of meds way back and the onset of this degree of pain have emerged about the same time? With a multi level fusion I'm guessing (really guessing) there could be various possibilities re pain generators and hope that you'll get some relief even before perhaps you might get a diagnosis although I am wondering if an injection of 60mg Toradol IM would help to alleviate the spasms? It helps me with severe cervical and low back spasms.

If you could get a bit of relief you could still pursue checking into what might have created this type of pain or what's going on clinically.

good luck and sorry to hear you're in this much pain and having to be bedridden for a week. I do hope things calm down ASAP for you.

[mmglobal]

Spine patients can get muscle spasms because of muscle tightness that comes from pain, postural problems, etc... The muscles get fatigued and go into spasm.

Another reason to have spasms is because of central nervous system issues. Think of a spasm as potentially being a 'mini' spasticity. In this case, looking above the lumbar spine might be in order.... t-spine, c-spine, brain. I would not jump to this, but if other obvious issues, especially those related to your lumbar spine, are ruled out... you might need to check there.

Remember all the 'I'm not a doctor' qualifiers... don't believe what you read on the internet.

mark

[dridobits]

I'm going to phone the pt guy first and email the doc. I'm about 1 1/4 year post fusion. In general I'm very glad I had the fusion as the bulk of the excruciating nerve pain is gone. I know I'll always have back pain. Being thrown back in bed for a week was a bummer. I used to pretty much live that way all the time. I'll ask what muscle it is and get back to everyone. Thanks for your suggestions.

[dridobits]

Went to see PT, gave me exercises to do which only makes things worse. I think this is stress related. Yes, it's the piniformas muscle. I asked the doctor for something to get me through the acute phase of this...I didn't ask for anything specific so she wants me to take prednisone. I know this will most likely knock it out but prednisone makes me crazy and gives me insommnia but I have to do it. It's amazing how stress can mess up my back.

[mmglobal]

The prednisone is a high level anti inflammatory and may help a great deal.... good luck!

Mark

[dshobbies]

Hey D - just read a post by a new member who recommended relaxation with exercise as recommended in a book The Journey by Brandon Bays. Since stress and tension are part of your problem (mine too), perhaps this is something you could try.

Regardless, I would also try meditating (as a means of deep relaxation) a couple of times a day. I think most people think of mediatation as a 60's or 70's thing with chanting a mantra but it's actually a deep relaxation with controlled breathing and destressing and, in your mind, going to your happy place.

With or without meds, I hope you feel better very soon.

Dale

[dridobits]

Happy to say day three of prednisone working, but there are so many side effects. Very hard to sleep on it. Feeling phantom pain also which is weird. Im took a walk yesterday and did some light house work. House work is my biggest issue but I hope in a week to be better?

[ADR seeker]

Fusions are rarely a good thing. The should have been done away with 50 years ago. Sadly medicine is a for profit thing and ADRs simply work too well although they are not perfect.

Ask yourself what disease has medical science cure in the past 50 years.

A great solution is the Neo Disk. It came out in 2004 but it is still awaiting FDA approval in spite of the fact that it and the M6 ADR have been used with great success in the civilized world.

Congress controls what the FDA does and corporations like medical corporations control congress. You can blame your suffering on some bought and sold pack of thieves in DC.

Our bodies do not belong to the government and the corporations that own it. We should be allowed to have medical treatment that in our judgement we think is best based on the advice or our doctors.

Sorry for the rant but this is the truth.

EAT THE RICH!

[jsewell]

I"m glad you said rare for fusions as i am one who has been extremely helped by lots of them . I am basically fused or in the process of from c4 thru L2. I am having lumbar pain know, but do to different issues. My thoracic spine was a mess and a few discs were horribly painful . the horrible pain is gone, unfortunately i had a surgeon who accidentally damaged my phrenic nerve so i had to trade in pain for low lung function.,
But i have not been a candidate for ADR do to low bone density.
judy

[dridobits]

Worked...got me out of pain but what a nightmare drug with terrible side effects. Really hard to come off of. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone!

[ADR seeker]

Some people get temporary help from fusion others end up far worse. The fact that there is not a safe and effective medication for low bone density is just another indication of how bad our health care system is. Things like vitamin D, boron, calcium, testosterone, and exercise can't be patented but dangerous chemicals can receive a patent.

I bet your MD has you on some poison like Boniva.

Here is the 411 on Boniva and other poisons like it.

Boniva is part of the drug classification known as “bisphosphonates”. The source(hold onto your hats!) is derived from a waste product produced by the phosphate and metal factories.

When they clean the smoke stacks, a “liquor” of deadly fluorides, uranium,heavy toxic metals are obtained. This substance is biohazardous class “A” industrial waste. It dos not get magically converted or cleaned into a safe formulary either people. It REMAINS TOXIC to the very end of production where it reaches the duped consumer.

The same substance is also used for Rodenticide, Herbicide, Industrial Cleaners, and the deadly nerve gas SARIN is made from those ingredients!!

As to cortico steroid; You'd think by now medical "science" would have come up with something better since 1950. They haven't. They do have NSAIDS that kill 1 in 12000

Long-term use of NSAIDs can cause gastric erosions, which can become stomach ulcers and in extreme cases can cause severe haemorrhage resulting in death. The risk of death as a result of use of NSAIDs is 1 in 12,000 for young adults aged 16-45. The risk increases almost twenty-fold for those over 75. Other dangers of NSAIDs are exacerbating asthma and causing kidney damage.[1] Over use of acetaminophen (paracetamol) causes liver damage and is the most common cause of liver failure in the United States, according to a 2009 report from the federal Food and Drug Administration.

LINK

[jsewell]

i am not on any bisphosphonates. I know they are poison, but all we have . do you have any better ideas?
I am also on corticosteroids for adrenal insufficiency . It is a life or death situation as my body just is not making any cortisol.We do need it to live so please put yourself in some of the situations others are facing and see what you would do.
I am very open to suggestions.
Judy

[ADR seeker]

Originally Posted by jsewell

i am not on any bisphosphonates. I know they are poison, but all we have . do you have any better ideas?
I am also on corticosteroids for adrenal insufficiency . It is a life or death situation as my body just is not making any cortisol.We do need it to live so please put yourself in some of the situations others are facing and see what you would do.
I am very open to suggestions.
Judy

Google orthopedic use mesenchymal stem cells and similar searches.

You may find help here. This MD is doing regenrative stem cell therapy
Regenexx - Stem Cell Treatments for Joint Pain and Injuries

The extract stem cells from your fat or bone marrow and grow them for a few weeks and then they inect them into the disk, bone or tendon that need repair. form what I have read everyone get some benefit and the science is sound.

I hope this helps you get some relief or cure.

Get your vit D levels checked and if you are peri menopausal or post find an enlightened doctor (often and oxymoron) and get your hormones tested and get some testosterone. Testosterone builds bones and reduces pain. Most woman today becasue of the xenoestrogens in the environment are estrogen dominant and lack normal tetosterone levels

MDs lie and say that test can increase the risk of certain cancers but the science on that is weak. The reasons Black woman don't get bone loss is because their hormonal make up is slightly different than White or Asian women. MDs won't tell you that.

If you can do weight training give it a try and take boron and magnesium and vit D with your calcium and also eat leafy green vegtables.

Try a chiropractor but make sure he's reputable.

Here is a free online book on the new orthopedic science. Book on Regenerative Orthopedics | The Regenexx? Procedure

[Maria]

Work for or represent Regenexx or had any area of your body treated in this manner in the facilty mentioned? Would be interesting to here first hand experience if you are indeed an actual patient/recipient.

[jsewell]

thanks for the info i will look into it all.
I do , believe it or not have an excellent endocrinologist. when i was doing research on cushings a few years back and still living in georgia, i flew out to so cal to see him. I have been on testosterone for years and my vitamin D levels are at the top of the range. Over the top at one point. I do a lot of hiking in the so cal sun. pain or no pain, breathing well or now not.
As far as my discs they are all taken care of. My lumbar pain is caused by a fracture in L2 and possibly the screws. My doc plans on taking them out and cementing the fracture when he feels i have recovered enough from my broken neck. that one was my biggest fracture and i don't even know how it occured , which is why i need to strengthen my bones. I have been a runner for years and years and stopped after my hip was replaced in 2008. So i have been doing all the right things that i can , just loosing the battle.

Thanks Maria not sure what you mentioned is, but i will check it out.
Any suggestions are always appreciated
judy

[Maria]

Hey Judy,
I was responding to what ADRseeker posted after checking out the link mentioned for Regenexx so the question was posted to this poster.

I stopped taking my injectable Forteo because it has such a plastic-y smell and I know that may have been stupid but it actually made me feel like vomiting just smelling it. My PCP told me to hold my nose or cover it with something pleasant smelling like Lavender. I still have to see my Rheumatologist and admit non compliance w/treatment and get BMD done. I only hope it has not gone lower.

I have seen what happened to my father with severe osteoporosis and do not want to go there. My mother, brother and father had/have it.


I do think that often the benefit(s) outweigh the risk(s) in medicine and on that premise we choose to proceed w/various treatments/endeavors.

[ADR seeker]

Originally Posted by Maria

Work for or represent Regenexx or had any area of your body treated in this manner in the facilty mentioned? Would be interesting to here first hand experience if you are indeed an actual patient/recipient.

I am looking into Regenexx myself. It sounds good but I can't find any double blind studies only testimonials. I have read on other forums of people getting good results.

I have also read about athletes having similar procedures done with good results.

The regenexx procedure is different in that the use something in the patient's blood to grow the stem cells. Because this is not a new substance the FDA rules are iffy. The FDA is trying to call it a medication but Regenexx is calling what they do surgery. I would trust Regenexx before I would trust the FDA but Regennex could be a scam.

As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out. Stem cell therapy is not being treated rigorously because it is something that can't be patented and whether people want to admit or not American medicine is about money first and foremost. For every Dr Oz there are 50 Dr Greeds. The sad fact is bad medicine is more lucrative than good medicine.

Take a look at the current ADR available. These things are tinker toys. I really don't think the best mechanical engineers are designing these things. The one that makes the most sense to me is a Neo Disk. It doen't look as pretty as the M6 but if it functions as well from a motion point of view I would IMO say it is superior because if implanted properly is won't migrate and it's a much simpler procedure. It also, as far as I know contains no metal so there is less chance of toxicity or metal allergy other than the screws. But the screws don't rub against anything so they probably won't shed metal.

[ADR seeker]

Originally Posted by jsewell

thanks for the info i will look into it all.
I do , believe it or not have an excellent endocrinologist. when i was doing research on cushings a few years back and still living in georgia, i flew out to so cal to see him. I have been on testosterone for years and my vitamin D levels are at the top of the range. Over the top at one point. I do a lot of hiking in the so cal sun. pain or no pain, breathing well or now not.
As far as my discs they are all taken care of. My lumbar pain is caused by a fracture in L2 and possibly the screws. My doc plans on taking them out and cementing the fracture when he feels i have recovered enough from my broken neck. that one was my biggest fracture and i don't even know how it occured , which is why i need to strengthen my bones. I have been a runner for years and years and stopped after my hip was replaced in 2008. So i have been doing all the right things that i can , just loosing the battle.

Thanks Maria not sure what you mentioned is, but i will check it out.
Any suggestions are always appreciated
judy

There are some clinical trials where they are mixing stem cells with BMPs (bone morphogenic proteins) but it is a product being tested for fusions.

It sounds genetic and it also sounds like you have good doctors.

Stem cells will help bone repair.

[jsewell]

ADR seeker we have taken over a thread and i feel bad about that. I need to concentrate on not getting any more fractures in the future first. THe ones i have are healing and the kyphoplasty is a simple procedure.

I did read up on regenexx, sounds interesting, but new and not proven .
judy

[ADR seeker]

Originally Posted by jsewell

ADR seeker we have taken over a thread and i feel bad about that. I need to concentrate on not getting any more fractures in the future first. THe ones i have are healing and the kyphoplasty is a simple procedure.

I did read up on regenexx, sounds interesting, but new and not proven .
judy

I need more proof too.

[Maria]

I like the idea of what Regenexx is proposing/doing. If it works then it sounds pretty great.

Seems like so many people are doing much better w fusions these days than what I have read on spine forums over the last 10 years or so.

I just always remember this when my last spine surgery in '92 failed so miserably and that's "better the devil you know than the devil you don't" ~ that is if one is getting along Ok and most of the time doesn't have much pain or aggravation/activity levels are acceptable and so forth. Since I no longer work that's the case w/me.

So many people are doing much better however with the help of wonderfully skilled surgeon and the right surgery for the right clinical situation however that I'm sure my logic is skewed/chickensh*t/ and so forth.

Today I'm having a weirdarse flareup of a prob that hasn't plagued me in a while. I don't expect it to last long and if it's going to be more than a day or two I'll consider getting an injection of 60mg Toradol IM to see if that alleviates the prob. Before I would have wanted an ESI which I can no longer get unless I pay for them.

So sitting is pretty much out for me today at least for now. Going to attempt my regular walk w/dog (hour) and see if that helps or ? Normally walking alleviates pain/stiffness for me though might increase muscle spasms if that's what's going on and I think that's the case.

[jsewell]

Maria
I am sorry to read of your flare up. No fun. I vacummed and washed the kitchen floor yesterday , not good. Well i wake up in pretty bad butt and hip area pain every day from my lumbar problems. The only area that is not fused!! At least all the way. L1 and L2 are fused, or fusing.
I hope you have a good doggy walk and are feeling better soon
judy

[Maria]

Hi Judy,
I don't quite get it. I was out and took my time walking and looking at 2 condos with a realtor while out .. back didn't really hurt much. On the way home my dog pulled me to check out a squirrel and that I felt. I actually had a bit of radiation of pain down my left leg all the way which I don't normally have. I'm still ignoring the pain at present and will carry on w/my day as planned. That means I can do as little or as much as I can tolerate!

Thanks for the well wishes. I have flare ups so infrequently that they seem like a big deal to me though truthfully compared to what I used to deal with I consider myself pretty fortunate to have this much relief and so few flare ups esp. of any duration!

Hopefully this too will be short lived!

[jsewell]

How are you feeling today Maria? Hope back to normal. Last summer when walking my 2 dogs, one went one way for a squirrel while one went to someone's lawn to do its duty. I fell totally backwards and hit my head on the ground first as stupid me did not put my hands down to protect myself. When i got home it was straight to the er with a huge bump sticking out of my head. I don't walk the 2 of them together anymore and because i have steroid induced muscle weakness i don't walk Henry at all.
Dogs can be dangerous!!!
judy

[Maria]

Judy,
I think I recollect what might have started this episode. There was a huge mosquito on my front door the day before yesterday. I'm kind of scared of bugs so I kick boxed this bug to the floor and killed it. Yeah.. that move was a bit extreme for my leg/hip/back. Was holding Lola who was trying to get away when she saw/heard my foot hit the door!

So yesterday got thru the day and dog walks though by the end of the day and evening I was really feeling about 100 years old spine wise. Pain was bad.

This morning still had it. It's gotten better it seems although I've not been too active yet have not had to lie down or rest to lessen the pain. Just not really doing as much as I planned. Dog walks so far are Ok and have been trying to see if I can reduce clothing in closets (trying things on to see what I can get rid of)!

Thanks for asking and hope you're doing Ok today~ it's such a beautiful day outside!

[jsewell]

Maria
I went for a hike. I should really rename what i do. I am so slow with this breathing restriction, i just can't get enough air in. I take enough pain meds and what is going on in my low back (i think stenosis) feels ok up hill, not down. So i get up to the turn around point and have no choice but to go down pain or no. I usually hear someone make a comment about my neck brace too. Did today. I am so slow it is embarrassing to me.
Now i am exhausted , but heading to target for the boys.
i just did the closet clean out as i had a truck coming for old clothes. STill need to weed out clothes in other places
judy

[Maria]

Back was clearing up or so I thought at least pain was gone. Then I went out to tea yesterday afternoon w/friends and their dogs. They have real small dogs like 5 pounders .. I have Lola all 20lbs of barking mini schnau who didn't apreciate me having tea/choc chip cookie w/o giving her more treats than she already had. So bark bark bark until I picked her up and put her on my lap. Big mistake. Left side of back hurting again over hip and down part of my leg and if that's not enough my neck hurts too. Lovely.

Oh well, hopefully a.m. meds will help out and if I get bad enough I know to go next for a Toradol injection.

I've managed my walks w/Lo to be long enough though she's in pursuit of squirrels on our street and any other that make her a pain on the leash re tug of war. I realize this means I don't have a well trained dog but it is what it is..

[dshobbies]

Maria,

A quote comes to mind when I read some of the things you've done.

'Do what I say, not what I do'!

Why is it we know better, would chastise others for doing the same, yet we do it anyway? With me, it's not a dog, it's my grandchildren but they are so worth it

Dale

[Maria]

Dale,
I was just telling a friend of mine last night to be careful helping another friend "less able" to move furniture. Once in a great while I do something that stupid and really pay. The dog on the other hand is only 20lbs. The refill cat litter weighs more than that and I have to carry that upstairs but it was the way I did this "pick up" yesterday. I neglected to mention my terrible body mechanics!

So yes my message is to all spineys is "do as I say, not as I do!"

We all do something not exactly "proper" for our spinal situation once in a while don't we! To err is human (and then forgiving ourselves must be divine!)!!!

[jsewell]

I am guilty as charged too I try not to bend down and recently took out my reacher grabber from my hip surgery . My problem with bending is i have an all over muscle weakness do to steroids and if i bend from my knees and do not fall on them, i still dont' have the strength to get up. so really bad body mechanics too.
And my 16 pound dog likes to play tug of war on the leash too. I don't dare walk or bigger dog, Henry at 50 pounds!
judy

[dshobbies]

Train your dogs ladies (and gents). Lucy is 85+lbs and will walk off a leash next to me - actually she likes walking a few steps in front of me - she always must lead the way. Though she is an old lady now, she was trained as a puppy and only chased birds, squirrels and bicycles but a strong NO or STAY would stop her. She waits at the curb for a 'go ahead' before crossing the street, doesn't chase after other dogs but children's faces are always too tempting. She knows all the neighborhood children as they do her.

She will not take food off the table or that not meant for her except from a child - just too easy. She actually licks it first, knowing that we won't let the child eat it and she'll get it.

She will find a cool shady spot in the grass if we stop to talk to a neighbor and if we take too long, she might even walk home by herself.

Krystal, our previous 100lb shepherd was the same except she didn't always have to take the lead.

She has attacked (with good cause) and is my family's protector, especially her babies.

Pull on a leash, absolutely never.

Thanks Julius for training her and all our dogs so well!

[jsewell]

My little buddy is so stubborn, but i did have him trained or in training to stop at corners and walk slowly across the street ( my speed) but others walk him and don't follow my instructions even if i am there.
He won't eat off anything., Even when i give him what i have saved for him on a paper plate and put it in front of him he will not eat it until i tell him a few times that it is ok. but he does pull on a leash, i guess i always let him get away with it becuase i prefer him in front of me so i can see him and not trip over him. Also he is so small only 16 poounds. On trails he stays close, sometimes not so close , but always comes back to check on me and i can 99% of the time see him up ahead. When he is tired he stays near me., no leash.
Henry is just too big for me to walk after my accidental falling backwards on my head. My kids won't let me walk him , but they rarely do. he is trained to stay, sit , lay down., but eats everything in site or reach if no one is around including the couch.
but they are so darn cute and definately could benefit from some serious training.
judy

[Maria]

Well I've tried to train Lola. I think because dh and I had different training styles/thoughts she was off to a bad start and then living between us when while we have lived apart hasn't helped however I find that I probably have to be trained as I spend the majority of time w/her so I have contacted a trainer who uses the Amechien (sp) training style and will try this out to see how we do.

I'm quite tired of being pulled so much and/or have Lola defy me and she is quite stubborn bless her little schnauzer heart.

[dridobits]

I don't know how I used to do it, my corgi pulled so much. It helps when were going uphill because she pulls me up.

I few years ago, I bought a halti-harness (easy to find them online) and the problem is pretty much solved. I use is all the time and it does control her pulling. I'd really recommend this to others. When I walk her without the harness it's a nightmare. Hope this helps.

[Maria]

I'll check out the halti harness. I bought Lola various kinds of harnesses or leashes to guide her walking and she is one tough nut. Schnauzers definately have a mind of their own. The lab that she lived with for a year was the best dog ever to walk and I enjoyed every single minute of a walk with that dog even in the rain. Sometimes as much as I love my dog it feels like I'm being tortured when walking her so I can imagine how she feels!

Recently while we were in San Diego Co. she got a foxtail up her right nostril and she got it removed but she has been a somewhat different dog since then re walking. I spent thousands of dollars between her and my two old persians that got sick while we were there (upper resp infection my 14 y.o. maile persian and irritiable bowel syndrome for the 15y.o. Persian).

The cats are now doing good tho Lola still has me wondering if a foxtail is lodged in her brain or something... I'm going to take her to the Vet and see what he thinks as she's acting weird and walking kinda weird like tentatively and stopping every so often and just sitting there looking at me. She normally looks at me very defiantly and now it's like rather vacantly but still she's not budging. I even had to pick her up and carry her 2 blocks recently which while doable was definately a work out.

[dridobits]

My buttock muscle spasms are getting totally out of controll and I am having similar symptoms of what I had before surgery (wah.com) with tickling sensations that drive me crazy and I can't move for hours. Muscle relaxants do nothing. The only thing that goes near it is ativan which knocks me out and I hate. I have been doing a lot of piraformis (sp)? stretches which pt told me was the problem.

The spasms are getting like ticks now maybe 3 per second...exhausting!!!! for hours. I'm going to take a bunch of potassium to see if that helps. The doctor and I were talking about switching from prozac to something else as people develop restless leg and other issues from prozac.

I'm getting really discouraged as I've been in bed at least half of the week with these spasms driving me crazy. Surgeon on vacation and will contact him as soon as he returns. Any ideas welcome...thanks!

[dshobbies]

Haven't you been through enough? Perhaps you might consider getting this muscle released (another surgery). Contact Mark for the best doctor.

Good luck - Dale

[Maria]

I'm sorry to read your spasms have stayed triggered. I don't know what to recommend as when mine get triggered when all else fails I either get an injection of Toradol or if I'm really just in such rotten shape I will lie down in front of the TV and have myself a pretty good sized glass of vino or two and then my body just knocks out. That's called downing out the central nervous system. I realize some here would think that unthinkable esp. as I'm on an opioid pain medication (low dose 1x/day) but in reality this is a very limited use remedy and what happens is I totally relax and go to sleep.

This being said I'm not sure your spasms would be as easily remedied given the hardware in place.

I hope someone offers some ray of hope ASAP. Please keep us informed.

[zfontana]

Im new here, i just had a hybrid surgery 5 week ago l4-l5prodic and l5-s1 fusion. Still have lots of leg and foot pain(big toe). This all started after the SED procedure with DR Chistopher Yeung in az. Only had back pain before the SED surgery. My life went down hill after that with all kind of leg and back pain. Im hope the hybrid will help a little but my feet are killing me. Cant walk very far. ONLY 36 great! Help maybe



anthony

[cherylstewart67]

Originally Posted by dridobits

Happy to say day three of prednisone working, but there are so many side effects. Very hard to sleep on it. Feeling phantom pain also which is weird. Im took a walk yesterday and did some light house work. House work is my biggest issue but I hope in a week to be better?

my nurse told me not to take it past 6 pm...i have not started mine. i was given pred. two days ago. the relief will only be a temp solution anyway, so why should i bother? as for the Zipsor they gave me to try, it makes me dizzy...there was a time when i could at least lay down and get some relief but now it even hurts when i am lying down.

[dshobbies]

Hi Anthony and welcome to the forum.

Great that you already had your surgery. The pain you are still feeling is nerve pain which takes a long time to subside. 5 weeks is still pretty early and your fusion may take a little longer to heal than the ADR which takes awhile itself. The surgical pain is expected to subside at around 6 weeks but 6 months isn't unusual for your double procedure. Some, like me, take even longer.

You might want to see a pain management specialist to control this pain and please start a new post to tell us about yourself and your circumstances.

Dale

[zfontana]

Does these prodisc work? It seems like there are to much motion with this disk. All i here about is bad outcomes.I should had done a double fuson. Any takers, having a hard time.

[zfontana]

What ADR do feel is the best one.

Anthony

[dshobbies]

Anthony,

So we can address your questions specifically, please start a new thread and tell us about yourself. Where do you live? Who did your surgery? What were your pre-surgery symptoms, etc.

Personally, I have not heard that of that many failures with Prodiscs. I have 3 in my lumbar spine and aside from severe nerve damage during insertion, the discs are fine. However, there are more discs to choose from now and you and your doctor should choose the best one for your circumstances. Your doctor felt the Prodisc was good for you.

Dale

[jbcool35]

Well I don't know about the new things being mentioned. I do believe that most doctors don't have our best interest at heart. I also believe politics is just a big show and we are the watchers and the main stream media too.

As far as fusions and ADR go, I hear about the same amount of success stories. Some good, some great, some bad and some are crippled from them. It seems the bad outweighs the good to me. I should have never had a fusion. It has ruined my life. I was way better off without it. I was told I was not a candidate for ADR because I had Spondylolysis at L5/S1. They told me it wouldn't work and the only way to fix it was a fusion. The disc was crushed, I had several stress fractures and my spine was sliding forward off my tail bone. I'll admit it was painful, but just when I thought the pain couldn't get any worse, I had a fusion. Whenever you think it can't get any worse, trust me it can!

Now L4/L5 is pretty much gone. I also have a cyst in there somewhere. They don't want to do ADR there either. Something about ADR not being to good for the lower back due to the weight. Plus L5/S1 didn't fuse. They need to go in, add more BMP so it will fuse. They said they need to fuse L4/L5 so L5/S1 has something stable to heal with. Who knows? All I do know is my Workers comp doesn't cover ADR, so maybe that is really why they don't want to give it to me.

I can say without a doubt that my pain has gotten progressively worse since my fusion. Maybe it is the cyst? Maybe the surgery itself? Maybe L4/L5 or maybe a combo of them all? I believe it was the fusion surgery cause I have been in horrible pain ever since getting it.

To all of you that have had a successful fusion or ADR or whatever else you had, congratulations! To those who are still suffering, I feel your pain and hope you make a full recovery someday.

We can't lose hope!

[dshobbies]

JB.

It's time for another opinion. Two heavy hitters in Beverly Hills, not too far from you are Dr. Regan or Dr. Delamarter. Both are well versed in ADRs and if appropriate, are likely to recommend it.

Many people believe their doctors are great and though that may be true, another truth is that doctors are not likely to recommend a procedure they don't perform themselves. Currently I'm battling a friend whose doctor recommended a 3 level lumbar fusion. Thank goodness the ins company denied coverage or she would have already had this done.

When you have a confirmed diagnosis and similar recommendations from 3 doctors, then you know your doctor was correct. If you get differing opinions, you have to decide which doctor/procedure is best for you which you can only do with your own knowledge base. Learn as much as you can about your condition and various treatments before deciding on what comes next.

Good luck, Dale

[jbcool35]

Dale,
Trust me, I have seen about 5 different surgeons. Some orthopedic and some neuro. A few of them did ADR but they all said fusion is my best option. I would think Fusion at L5/S1 was a good call just because of the fracture and slippage. However, I always thought ADR would be more appropriate at L4/L5. Dr.Regan doesn't take my workers comp, I already checked. I'm pretty sure he would recommend fixing the L5/S1 fusion and ADR at L4/L5. To me it seems that's what they should have done to begin with. L4/L5 was bad when they fused L5/S1. So who knows? I've about given up. I wonder if my PPO insurance will cover anything? I doubt it since it was work related.

[dshobbies]

I know worker's comp is even more difficult to work with than ins. co's but well worth the fight. Perhaps you could pay for a consultation with Drs. R or D and use that to fight for your spine.

Most of us had to personally pay for our ADRs. Ins is coming around but very slowly and most still won't pay for it. I realize finances play a huge role in the ADR and spine world but it was well worth the debt.

Every minute feels like and hour and so on when you're in pain. Wearing you down is something the bureaucracy counts on which is easier when you're dealing with too much. Only you can decide when to give in or continue the battle.

You are caught between a rock and a hard place. Others have walked in your shoes. Only you can decide what to do and what comes next. Good luck,

Dale

[Maria]

JB,
You have to be careful when it comes to WC and what you do re surgery because if it's something not authorized by WC if you have future medical benefits you could stand to lose them possibly proceeding without their authorization altho that's a decision one has to make for self.

Also your PPO insurance if anything like mine might investigate the claim if it's after the fact and deny payment (even if previously authorized).

I think there is a way that PPO insurance can pay for something that is WC but it has to be with full understanding and knowledge of what's going on and an authorization prior to surgery regarding payment (something you could take into court if PPO decides to turn around and deny payment).

Medicare in my case makes me sign a form every so often stating my low back is covered under another policy (WC) so they don't get stuck with any diagnostics/treatment related to my low back. On that note billing for my cervical spine even has been investigated altho I have never had a WC case involving my cervical or thoracic spine.

It may depend on what state you're in as to the WC legislation and what the carrier is willing to agree to though I'd not do anything w/o knowing what you're risking (if anything).

I did pay for a consultation w/Dr.Regan just to get his opinion even tho he knew I wasn't going to be able to utilize him for surgery (re WC) and also paid for overseas consultation w/Dr.Bertagnoli via Mark's service (my first consultation re ADR that helped me forge ahead w/others here in the states via WC system).

In my own case when it came to my 3rd spine surgery (which I didn't have) WC had advised me if I proceeded with anything they didn't recommend/authorize and if I went out of the country I would forfeit my future medical benefits and everything would be terminated at that point with regard to my low back being covered anymore thru WC and of course surgery abroad would not be paid for even tho at the time it would have cost WC one third less than it would have here in the states!

I didn't have the $ for the surgery no way no how and didn't really feel what I was offered in the US would have been comprehensive enough (maybe it would have tho I didn't feel that way) so took my time and did nothing. As it turned out in my own case an OK thing do as my L5S1 autofused though this was after nearly 30 years from original injury (far longer than most people want to wait and nor would have I if my injuries were more recent).

Good luck. Pain is tough though so is the decision about what to do about it surgically so if you've the time make a well thought out well researched decision and hopefully you won't have "buyers remorse" re any new parts (or it will be less likely)!

[jbcool35]

Well thanks for the input guys. I fear L4/L5 is getting worse. That's what the x-rays show anyway. Looks like the nerve is being pinched pretty good now and my level of pain has going up. I really don't want another surgery. The first one I had put the fear of God into me. I also don't want to lose future medical just in case I do need another surgery or need medicine, etc. I wonder if getting the cyst removed would help? I wonder if L5/S1 fused all the way, if it would help? It is partially fused, well maybe like a 1/4 way fused. I'm pretty sure that L4/L5 is giving me some problems now but not sure how bad. I'm waiting for workers comp to authorize a nerve conduction study, still! I'll let you guys know and thanks again for all your input. I hope you are all doing ok.

[Maria]

That's right now I remember you're in CA too so you're under same WC legislation I am. My insurance carrier no longer auth's anything but meds for me now as they keep offering me Medicare Set Aside or to settle benefits. I too don't want to go there yet as cost of surgery will rise and I may need it in the future. L4 is still problematic for me even if L5S1 isn't that much.

My L5S1 area was the most problematic till it autofused. It was really bad. L4 is has been problematic as well tho so far not as much or at least so it seems. I'm sure things could get worse..tho hoping not to go there.

Good luck w/your nerve conduction studies. I have no idea if the cyst can be creating probs tho the nerve impingement if that's what you have I imagine can and/or maybe just the effects of the fusion and other stuff combined.

Hopefully whatever diagnostics you have will help the docs figure out where the pain is coming from. I completely get how you feel re more surgery as that's what my last surgery did for me as well.

Good luck/keep us posted!

[jbcool35]

Well on a different note, I've decided to try out working again. SSDI said I have some kind of 9 month trial period in case I can't do it. Just gonna try to get on with life. At the rate this country is spending money, SSDI will be gone. I'm scared of that besides I make less in a month than I made in a week before. If my nerve study comes back bad, then oh well. If I need surgery again, oh well. Nothing I can do about it. I haven't worked in 2 years and my pain is getting worse. So I may as well be working. Kinda strange why I have back problems and no one else in my family does? So much for genetics. Well I know mine was work related so never mind. Just thinking that different areas of my back and neck now hurt that didn't before. I wonder if that is caused by the surgery or if I have some kind of inflammatory/degenerative condition? It really bites whatever it is and has really messed up my life! I know all of us on here are messed up and a lot of people way worse than me. For some reason I'm starting to see people that jump, run and play around and it gets me angry that i can't do those things. I'm jealous. Well thanks for all the support guys. Wish me luck with work. Hope you all are doing better.

As far as the workers comp thing goes Mariaa, I don't know. I'm just trying to hold on. They have me at 55% disabled, so I think my lawyer is still on the case cause she feels she will one day get more money. She has been my lawyer since 12/2003 and hasn't missed a beat. I know your case is a lot older and I hope they at least keep giving you your meds. As far as medicare/medicaid goes, they aren't much better from what I hear. Guess it depends if you need the money bad enough then you might have to settle but like you said, I'd wait as long as I can and be sure medicare will cover you.

[dshobbies]

I know that occasionally we recommend seeking legal remedies for a bad surgical experience but the real truth is, there isn't one of us who doesn't want a complete life back instead of a single punitive penny. No amount of money can make our pain go away or make us feel better about not being able to run, jump (out of planes) or do 'normal' things. Unfortunately, it is the only equalizer available to some - however unfair.

Through the last several years, I've read some horrific stories. Choosing our surgeons and surgeries carefully is the only thing we can do for ourselves but even that carries no guarantee.

Spines are complicated and surgery is difficult. Decisions are often based on the better of two evils. BUT, when a doctor does something wrong, the simple result is we suffer. Ignoring our pain or hiding behind incomplete reports - and our choices become even more limited. I have no tolerance for avoidance of responsibility.

[jbcool35]

I agree. What's even sadder is that when the doctor does something wrong, he or she won't ever own up to it. They will try to make you feel stupid or that you did something wrong.

Sadly I feel medicine is just a business. They are there to make money. Who would want that responsibility unless they were making a boat load of money? Doctors, Big pharma, hospitals, lab work, surgeries all = big bucks!

I know medicine has it's place and many of us would be worse off without it, but like you say, it's hard to know who to trust.