"A Grave Error" with Prodisc Implantation in Germany

[Job13]

RIP Freedom of speech.

[dshobbies]

Job13,

This is my 3rd attempt at this post ????? so I'll keep it short. There's no excuse for the treatment you received from both Dr. B & FM. I agree there was less than adaquate response to your post surgical pain as well as pre-surgery advice.

The nerve damage I sustained during surgery has also been ignored but getting my life back completely overshadowed any negativity.

I still think Dr. B is an excellent surgeon but agree the treatment you received on both counts was and is still inexcusable. All of us who had positive experiences with Dr. B are scratching our heads in wondering why.

I hope your life is better and that you and your husband have both found new jobs.

Dale

[Maria]

Job13,
I was one of the persons that at one time had multiple opinions re ADR (2 levels or hybrid surgery) to take care of my chronic low back pain post failed back surgery on L4/L5S1 (discectomies).

What stopped me from having more surgery was actually feeling better and being more active. I have been too much in fear that I'd return to the horrible post failed back surgery status I suffered for years with horrendous neuropathies and Arachnoiditis like symptoms from my waist down bilaterally thru extremities.

Back in 1992 the surgeon that did my L4 discectomy didn't want to admit failure either and shuffled me gladly off to PM. He did allow a 2nd opinion with his OSS buddy who told me to see a proctologist and gynecologist for my symptoms and basically said I was crazy...

So I've been one of the ones that just has left my back to it's own fate and have hoped for the best and so far so good tho returning to work hasn't been in the picture to date. Maybe in the future. I'm positive since my pain is pretty well controlled "so far" these last 4 years.

I hope your recovery has continued and both you and your husband are doing better. I'm sorry to hear what a terrible experience you had with Dr.B and I too wonder why you got no response~

I do thank you for posting your experience as I think it's good for people considering surgery that may be recommended but isn't emergent or definately necessary (tho thought it would be helpful) to know that spine surgery isn't something to go into lightly.

I thank Mark for not banning your post.

Job13 it's good to hear from you again.

[jamie5136]

As I know personally these posts are viewed by the doctors themselves, so I am going to keep this short. I feel your pain and went through a highly unsuccessful surgery in Germany myself. I don't think this error was on purpose, but nonetheless, my three discs (2 of the 3) sank up into my vertebrae (badly) and then cemented in place... consequently I am left with massive pain in my lower back, upper back, legs, etc. I have been told I can come back for xx number of dollars for artificial facets and a fusion, which may be an option, but I would try to go to someone close or someone who has good follow-up. I get about one email every 4-6 months, have had one call and that's it. No return emails in ages. They have my 60k in a Cyprus bank account, so I am nobody now. I was told it was a 95+% success rate and later found this was not true. He has a salesperson work for him schlepping his services. I believed it would be successful, had no idea about subsidence or degenerating facets, etc. I was lied to. If I had to do this over again, I would have fused L5S1 and done an ADR at L45 and that's it. These three CANNOT be removed w/out dying on the table and I hear that fusing in place is not successful, I can't take pain meds, so I am left in daily misery. My life was turned upside down. I can't have children now, my family is left sad and angry and my fiance feels so bad for the pain I endure daily. I now know why insurance does not pay for these; they are experimental. I would not only not recommend this surgery, but I would not go over-seas; plenty of good doctors in the USA. I am sad and in pain and feel hopeless. Do your research, talk to patients and be leery of those who "work" for doctors as liaisons. Mark was the only person who helped me, but no solution was worked out as 10+ doctors had all different views on how to "fix" me... fuse in place, take out, do nothing, etc. etc. Who can I trust? Nonetheless, I am a cripple now. I get private messages all the time of people with similar stories and concerns about said doctors. They fear posting, but I get private emails; the whole thing is sad. People are given hope, robbed blind, and left in pain with no solution; very sad.

[dshobbies]

I wish I could say more than I'm sorry. Your miracle turned into a disaster. I can only hope that your solution can be found and is successful. We all say the choice of doctors is the first choice - even that guarantees nothing.

These forums give hope and sympathy. All posts are important because they paint the true picture. When shopping for a new washing machine, I want to hear from the repair department just how many need repairs. If a surgeon won't paint his true picture, these forums should. We want to hear the good but we NEED to hear the bad. Only then can we get a true picture of a doctor and/or a surgery/device.

Jamie, I sincerely hope you find the solution you need- and the sooner the better.

Dale

[Job13]

RIP Freedom of Speech

[dshobbies]

I can't begin to put myself in your shoes. Had this surgery occurred in the US, the malpractice award would have sustained you for life and you would have been able to find that surragate, not that money would or could make up for what you've been through. I'm so sorry your life's circumstances have been permanantly and negatively altered. I wish there were words of wisdom but none come to mind. My emotions run very strong when I hear a story of unnecessary suffering at the hands of those who are supposed to help. My anger overshadows my sorrow.

I wish you well and hope your suffering is not so constant as to allow you to enjoy some living.

Dale - and though I do have 3 sons, the picture is of my 3 grandchildren.

[nomorepain]

i unfortunetly feel a lil funny about posting this listening to your experiences of your prodisc surgeries, i do feel your pain as i suffered with 2 collapsed levels myself for many many years before my prodisc surgery, although my story is different. I am in the US trials as you can read my posts and my surgical experiences. i have had very favorable results. It seems to me that spinal surgery is like a crap shoot. sometimes it works well, and other times it doesn't. there are so many variables. as we all know we are all similar, but we all handle surgery differently and we recover differently. there are good surgeons and not so good surgeons, and even the good surgeons sometimes have undesirable results. It's a shame that those responsible won't treat you as before surgery, as that is what their oath is about isn't it? i do hope you get some resolve and soon and i am glad you posted your issues, this is what this forum is all about .

[Maria]

Anastasia,
Like you I have spent a good part of the last 18 years advising people considering spine surgery to really think about what they are doing and be ready for whatever results might come their way because like Gary I too believe spine surgery is somewhat of a crapshoot even in the hands of the best surgeons.

Spine surgery doesn't really have predictable results. It has desirable results and I'm sure no matter what happened the surgeon intended for you to have those desirable results however afterwards I don't get why you weren't dealt with by the same surgeon although I know I was given the same treatment back in '92 when my percutaneous discectomy failed really horribly and left me with Arachnoiditis like symptoms for a solid 5 years post op and then sort of easing off tho my lumbar spine was a deteriorated mess at 3 levels now instead of one or two.

I remember clearly before my 2nd spine surgery I too started to feel better and I too said to the surgeon "I feel better ~ should I wait?" and he said "no, the pain will only return and it will be worse." Because of my prior experience with back pain at L5S1 being that and surgery at that level being successful I figured something so much less invasive was bound to be successful.

WRONGWRONGWRONG (at least for me this is how I feel since I felt better I think I should have gone with that a bit longer). It was never explained to me what went wrong postop except later on MRI done by other doctors that I had an anular tear at L3 and rebulging discs now at L4 and L5S1 again and scar tissue on the S1 nerve root. So it looks like that was "me".. but I wondered about what the surgeons part in what took place during surgery ~ too much disc sucked out, too big a hole..?? Definately seemed like a pretty immediate collapse and I felt it big time!

It was a long and gruesome haul thru the pain and what it did to my life and career. I had to stop working as well tho at first I made many modifications and tried to hang in there..

I'm not saying not to be mad about what happened to you and not feel that you have been wronged nor to be quiet vs. continuing to use your voice however I will say that at least for me time has given me back a semblence of life that is acceptable to me and the anger and pain I used to feel has been long gone.

Oh yes, I too didn't have children because of what happened with my back. No one was giving out pain meds back in those days to failed backs and even if they did the OB-GYNs frowned on any but medically necessary meds at the time which often may have gotten bumped to high risk pregnancy OB-GYN and care was more expensive. It wasn't even that it was just the fact I was miserably in horrible pain 24/7 so how could I even think about having kids/raising them. I do think things have lightened up re pain meds and pregnancy these days if one can get by this way and has enough support for this endeavor (pregnancy and childrearing).

Again time has given me back an acceptable even enjoyable life albeit with darned pain meds and their side effects though I do hope you will improve and/or at least feel better with time and have a life that is enjoyable even if it's not the same life.

Spine surgery anyone.. think real hard~ be prepared for the worst (which I think from my experience is unimaginable) no matter what the surgeon tells you however hopefully there will be success esp. if you really NEED to have surgery.

In my book need has to do with severe unrelenting pain that won't allow for any quality of life or severely affects one's quality of life, incontinent of bowel and/or bladder, and loss of use of extremities and/or severe numbness tha results in loss of function (loss of tone/function) and things like severe cord compression, severe stenosis.. etc..

I guess I learned the hard way on surgery #2.

[Crystal33]

Dear Anastasia,
I hope, as the years have passed, that you are managing better with the physical and mental pain. It is a sad reflection on our world that money is often placed above people and that this extends into the medical industry. It is likely that some doctors should not be doctors because they are personally more motivated by greed, ego, arrogance than genuine care for patients.

I am no doctor, but the MRI of the oversized metal disc in your spine looks terrifying. It is SO tall. In my opinion, a doctor should lose his license and be prosecuted for doing that. The patient should receive their money back and be given the best help in the world at no cost without delay...not be ignored and left incapacitated by pain and shock.

In Australia a surgeon dubbed "Doctor Death" was recently convicted of manslaughter of a number of patients over several years. Initial complaints about him were brushed off and swept under the carpet. Another doctor recently amputated the wrong leg of a lady. The principles of medicine have been compromised, at times corrupted, by a system that places money above patients, and overly protects doctors in the process. It needs to be changed.

[Job13]

RIP Freedom of Speech

[Crystal33]

This story expresses concerns and includes reference to a case where girl is suing over ADR surgery gone wrong, but on US soil. Don't know what the outcome was. The medical industry should be reformed to eliminate conflict of interest, in my opinion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/30/bu...00&oref=slogin

[Job13]

RIP Freedom of Speech

[dshobbies]

Before heading off to Germany myself - Dr. Regan offered to do my then, 4 level hybrid surgery. As a cash patient, Cedars wanted 75k for a 3 day hospital stay. (They refused to bill my ins co for the single level fusion. All costs were my sole responsibility) We waited a few weeks because the CCDH was scheduled to open for surgery in August/Sept '05. If we could agree on costs, I was going to be one of the first surgical patients and they wanted me there, assuring me they could do better than Cedars. Wrong - they wanted 50k more.

Not to dismiss what happened to Anastasia which we all agree is/was abominable, including business class airfare for 2, Mark's fees, hotels for 3 weeks, a 9 day hospital stay - my costs were 60k American. 55K for 15 minutes of operating room. Something is terribly wrong with this system.

From my 2 cents - CCDH hoped to cater to the rich and famous, refusing to accept certain ins. I guess not enough of them needed hospitalization. Also, many American back surgeons who further specialize (like Dr. R) refuse to accept insurance limited payments, further adding to the cost. IMHO, I don't blame many doctors but there should still be a happy medium.

[Job13]

RIP Freedom of Speech