The *Sign* I was waiting for..

[Maria]

I've been waiting a long time for a sign that would influence my surgical decision one way or another as the last year or so I've been pretty physical in comparison to where I was before this. Flare ups would be short lived and not so bad.

Ok, so I'm in the midst of a super sickening flare up with screaming with movement back pain. It may have muscle spasm component, most likely does tho I can tell when it's disc, the way it hurts~ and I have a positive straight leg raise...oh man, is it positive.

Normally I wouldn't dream of leaving my bed at this point for days but I'm in San Diego (not my home currently) to see my PM doc today and my husband is going to take me to the appt. and accompany which he never has to because I've NEVER gone to the doctor (any doctor) when I'm this flared up.

I was going to beg an ESI so I could return to Florida and help my father out some more, but I'm beginning to feel I am a surgery waiting to happen.

I never thought I had kicked the spinal problem but I thought I could wait longer... this type of flare up really is remniscent of exactly why I had discectomies.. horrible limiting pain with any movement~ now that it's happening again, I know it will happen more ~ I know this kind of pain but I worry it's at L3 vs. L4 or L5S1 (the discs that were concordant for pain on last 3 discograms).

Ok, I don't feel better stating this tho I know what's in my future. Need to get BMD done ASAP~ see where I'm at w/this and hope WC utilization review will auth' this ESI as WC is waiting for me to have surgery and may see this as an opportune time. Today would be a good day~ knock me out someone!

[dshobbies]

I'm so sorry Maria. A compromised disc can be a disaster waiting to happen though we all hope for the best. Sometimes we get it, sometimes we don't. My thoughts are with you.
Dale

[Maria]

I'm so glad I had this appt~ hub picked me up, I laid down on the back seat of the Expedition (so comfy) and the appt. is like 5mins away via freeway so got there quickly, went up to 7th floor at Mercy Medical Bldg. and asked a nice man to move off the bench cuz I needed it for my bad back to lie down and being a gentleman he did.. otherwise I would have laid on the floor (had a towel ready).

I was called in record time while deep in a discussion w/other patients in waiting room re "House" and "Dr. Ben Casey" if anyone remembers him..

My PM listened to my complaints, asked me if I've iced the area as he knows I don't (so cold!) and re the ESI he said "you know it's going to be denied" so I said I wanted him to order it anyway even if it's going to take an appeal as usually I can get it after a few appeals. He said that this is what WC is going to do more and more is deny my services because my case is so old and they want to get rid of me. This I know...

Oh well, got my shot of Toradol and felt much better. Amazing how spasms can be so torturous. At least I could be upright a bit while we got some take out food and then took a tiny walk a half a block with big dog off leash and little pulling one on leash. Still have the sharp jolting feeling in my low back but I'm much more relaxed so it's not happening with every tiny movement. Headed back to bed tho (will ice w/frozen peas).

I think I may have been worried for nothing as it seems like my PM thought my L4 and/or L5S1 was acting up, more likely L4. I think I get too worried about L3 even tho I know which symptoms are attributed to which dermatome and so forth.

thanks Dale, I'm going to make my appt. for my physical and Bone Density test to see where that's at . Next week I see my Primary Treating Doctor for my low back~ I'm pretty sure he'd agree with my request for an ESI, esp. since Sept. '07 was the last one. This is a pretty conservative request so I'm hoping it can be complied with~ sooner than later.

[ans]

Glad you feel better. I think you were rightly concerned as you expressed that you felt pain in a higher level previously. Good luck with the ESI. - ans

[Maria]

thanks ans,
I felt better yesterday so first vacumned then was walking dogs and slipped off a curb of about 6 inches. Hard jolt to spine but didn't feel it too much. Left SD yesterday for LB with friend coming back from Mexico and car ride probably didn't do me any favors.. but that wasn't enough for me, took a walk last night of about a mile which really is lightweight.

This morning I got up and my left foot was numb as well as tingling thru out my left leg which feels like dead weight and I've pain in my left buttock and in tailbone. Actually both legs feel dead tho left more than right which is odd as usually my right leg is the one with the odd sensations like drops of water on it or bugs crawling on the lower anterior and medial aspect ...

So I will probably take it kind of easy, try not to lift too much or whatever flares me up (still in spasms I think) and hope to make it to my OSS appt. this coming week. Perhaps another shot of Toradol will be in order (must check how often or closely together I can get this as I recall it's hard on kidneys?)..

Later~ take care!

[dshobbies]

Maria,

I may be off base here but... your back has been acting up as of late, yet with one day of feeling good you first vaccummed, etc. I know that some doctors preach mild exercise to relieve back aches but in your case I wouldn't think that's the best course of action. And then today, because you overdid it yesterday, you need more meds. Gotta tell you, I think you should be resting a lot more and keep strenuous activity to another time.

Please, take it easy... Dale

[Maria]

edited as necessary

[rjay920]

Hi there, was reading your comments with interest. I have a similar problem...spend so much time doing very little that the minute I have any pain relief I am off wanting to do things.....when I was the 'old me', vaccuming or similar could never be described as 'over doing it' - it was nothing at all!

You mentioned about knowing the symptoms of the different levels - could you explain these briefly? I had a microdiscectomy for L4/5 in Nov 06 which didn't work and caused right leg pain. I am due a dynesys on May 1st due to instability. Pain has been mostly down left buttock, leg, stabbing in left toe with back spasms approx once a month however after discectomy this altered to right leg too a little. Now, with 3 weeks to go til next surgery I have (unbeknown to surgeon) started with knee pains, strange sensations in soles of feet and pain in back lower down (I can feel it particularly if I press that area). I am panicking it might be another disc further down - could it be the same one?? MRI in Nov 07 showed no sign of anything else but as well as this new pain/sensations I have also had difficulty going to the toilet to use my bowels - like it has slowed up. Doc says she thinks this is just stess but I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced these problems. My worst nightmare would be to have this op in 3 weeks to find that I have another disc and it could have been dealt with at same surgery - anyone any ideas/suggestions???

Thanks Rjay

[mmglobal]

rjay.... what levels are being addressed? If bowel problems are adequately explained (meds?), that's one thing... but if they are not adequately explained and you have the onset of new neurologic symptoms including bowel issues... I would think they'd want to evaluate them... prior to surgery.

Mark

[Maria]

Rjay,
I know my spine or think I do and just look at a dermatome chart in terms of symptoms however I'm an old time spiney with mostly same symptoms and not much below the low back at least not in terms of pain.

If I were you~ I would make sure to let your surgeon know what your new symptoms are to make sure you don't need to have additional evaluation to rule out another level. As Mark says, best to find out now, not later.

good luck and don't feel like you're pestering your spine surgeon~ I'm sure any practitioner/surgeon would want to be aware of any additional/new subjective (what you report) complaints so he or she may do any further objective (doctor's exam/eval) examination and/or additional testing possibly to further rule out any additional or differing problem before surgery is undertaken.

[Maria]

Rjay,
didn't know if you've read what I posted before so didn't edit.

Re bowels, meds slowing down this function? Pain? Stress.. all can do this or so it's been my experience. Take a laxative if necessary to help like Senakot S which is natural and has senna in it (natural laxative) and the stool softener as well so you won't have to bear down (valsava maneuver) and strain to have a bowel movement. Or have your Primary Care doctor prescribe something for you or recommend such as Miralax which is now sold over the counter (OTC).

Hope you're doing OK. I think freaking out is normal prior to surgery tho I'd want to be sure to get the last word in re any additional symptoms to at least feel I got it out even if they don't mean anything different in terms of plans.

[dshobbies]

About 'pestering' a doctor. First, we all have to look after ourselves and decisions made without all the facts may be the wrong one, regardless of the genre in which this decision must be made. For instance, a lender's decision to make a home loan would be greatly affected if the job you listed was only temporary or the company was about to relocate to another city. They would then know the payments would become difficult and you might ultimately lose the house. Why are we so afraid to share important information with our doctors when a healthy outcome may be jeopardized? If your doctor is too aloof or self righteous to listen then maybe it's time to find a new doctor.

The second reason to voice your concerns is, whether we like it or not, health care is a comodity that we pay for. If my money is good enough to send a steak back to a restaurant kitchen, then it's sure good enough to expect and demand excellent health care (or at least as good as can be expected considering the state of health care). We all work too hard for our money and if you're paying... you should get the best!

Sometimes fear prevents us from voicing our concerns. I know of 2 people who died from cancer because of fear of being diagnosed. They put off going to their doctor until it was too late. I once had a spot on my chest that I was sure was cancer but it wasn't until I mentioned it to a friend that she literally made my appointment and accompanied me to the doctor so I couldn't back out. It was nothing but fear prevented me from finding out. We all have stories like this or know of others who put off doing what's needed until whatever condition has worsened. In too many circumstances, the condition has escalated and must be treated on another level.

We all must blow our own horns!

[Maria]

Was a bad choice of words tho I meant not to feel like that as I'm sure Dale was getting to. I feel the same way about health care~ it's a commodity.
And I don't like rudeness or abruptness. There is no reason for it as far as I'm concerned. If there's an emergency, sure, go to it.. otherwise there's no fire that one has to run to. Ok, so back on track.. call your doctor if there are new symptoms and you're concerned...do not wait until the day of surgery to tell the doctor.. timing would be a bit off then, ya know!

Yesterday I was in Urgent Care for simple allergic conjunctivitis/allergies. I needed prescription eye drops.. I knew this. Ok, so when I finally get my prescription and go to the pharmacy~ the insurance wouldn't cover the 10 drops and they were going to cost $118!!!!!

I asked the clerk processing this script if there was a generic. She said no. I told her to ask the pharmacist if there was a similar medicine covered by the insurance and he immediately replied "yes" with he had to call the doc for the script. The doctor was out of the Urgent Care on lunch break until 3p.m.

Mind you I had waited from 10a.m. till now nearly 2p.m. in terms of a simple urgent care prescription so I was really getting ticked off.. I expressed myself without swearing ~ a miracle at this point as I was really disgusted and the pharmacist took care of the script/call within 15 minutes/reaching the doctor.

Instead of paying $118, I paid a $15 copay. So it pays to speak up! Do not fear your own voice/questions~ fear not expressing yourself/concerns and regretting it later!!!!

[rjay920]

Originally Posted by mmglobal

rjay.... what levels are being addressed? If bowel problems are adequately explained (meds?), that's one thing... but if they are not adequately explained and you have the onset of new neurologic symptoms including bowel issues... I would think they'd want to evaluate them... prior to surgery.

Mark

Hi Mark

Hope Diane is doing well - she looks great on the pics you posted.

Just L4/5 to be done with dynesys - like I said, my MRI showed no probs in Nov 07 with adjacent levels. I do have scar tissue from the microdiscectomy - I have instability (I think from the microdiscectomy?) which radiates symptoms in both back and legs (only had left leg probs before the microdiscectomy). I only do ibuprofen, heat pads, rest and acupuncture to controll pain so I know it's not meds that are 'slowing me down'!

Do you know of any discs lower that could cause knee pain and the odd sensations in the soles of my feet? The part of my back which if I press it hurts is at least 1-2 inch below my L4/5 discectomy scar.

I do suffer with neck/shoulder problems too which have never had an mri (cos insurance couldn't cover them with lower back as they've been going on too many years) and these are also worse at this time than ever (pins and needles in left palm, pain running down arm)- can't see how they could be related to my bowel problem but thought I'd better mention it in case!


thanks, Rjay

[rjay920]

Originally Posted by Maria

Rjay,
didn't know if you've read what I posted before so didn't edit.

Re bowels, meds slowing down this function? Pain? Stress.. all can do this or so it's been my experience. Take a laxative if necessary to help like Senakot S which is natural and has senna in it (natural laxative) and the stool softener as well so you won't have to bear down (valsava maneuver) and strain to have a bowel movement. Or have your Primary Care doctor prescribe something for you or recommend such as Miralax which is now sold over the counter (OTC).

Hope you're doing OK. I think freaking out is normal prior to surgery tho I'd want to be sure to get the last word in re any additional symptoms to at least feel I got it out even if they don't mean anything different in terms of plans.

Hi Maria and thanks for that. I have planned to email my sugeon today to tell him of new symptoms and see what he says - It can't hurt really can it....I think we often try not to bother people or want to feel like a pest so just leave things but this is too important not to mention, so will drop him a line.

As for bowels - thanks for advice. Doctor has prescribed me some senakot and laxatives and enima! It's getting a balance...laxatives work a bit too well - even on a lesser dose than prescibed! It's so ironic - 12 years ago I was diagnosed with a form of colitis - I battled with docs to do something for a good 2 years before (they kept saying it was ibs) I could be stood in middle of shops or anywhere and suddenly that was it, I had to go - no matter where - I had no control. I lost my confidence as a result, couldn't get on a bus, got anxiety if there wasn't a toilet near! All because it took me 2 years to persuade docs that it wasn't ibs and to give appropriate treatment. It has taken me 10 years to get over some (not all) of my fears in relation to that and twist of fate........can't go now without enimas etc....life can be so cruel, good job we have a good sense of humour. For me, to ensure I don't lose my confidence again (ie have to dash in public) It's important to get the balance right of laxatives etc So I will have a play with them, see what i can do short term. Long term of course it will need to be looked at. Doc says she doesn't want to jeopordise back operation and will look at it after......something to look forward to then! Aggghhh to lead a normal life.

Thanks for your advice and support it really helps.

rjay

[dshobbies]

rjay,

Bowel problems and proper function are nothing to laugh at though the brunt of many jokes. I'm sorry you're still having problems and hope that your current regimen provides the relief you need. Is this definitely a medicinal problem and not related to your back?

Also, just a suggestion, you say you use heat on your back, among other things. You might want to try ice or a combo of heat and ice. Heat is good for muscles but you have some scar tissue and probably some swelling. Ice will help reduce it, albeit temporarily.

As per the jokes, please read on, though it's been awhile so I may get it wrong.

One day, various body parts were discussing which should be the boss of the body. The heart claimed to keep the body beating and pumped the life's blood and should be the boss. They eyes claimed they gave the body sight and led it where it was going and should be the boss. The brain boasted that it kept all the body functioning as one unit and that it should definitely be the boss.

When the asshold stated that it wanted to be the boss, all the other body parts started laughing and in unison said, 'don't be ridiculous, you can't be the boss'.

But the asshold decided to show them and closed up. Soon the heart was beating erratically. They eyes began watering and couldn't focus. The brain became blubbery and confused.

This goes to demonstrate - to be a boss you don't have to have a heart, foresight or even a smart brain... you just have to be an asshole!

[Maria]

edit as necessary

[mmglobal]

rjay... bowel problems and symptoms running down arm???? what does cervical MRI show?

[rjay920]

Yes, thanks for posting the joke....it's also a valid point!

Mark - I've never had a cervical MRI - they've done four on me in the last 18month for my lower back (yes 4!) but wasn't allowed to have top half done at same time - partially to do with private medical insurance - they will cover lower back but won't cover top. It's nonsense. Could there be some connection to bowel problems and cervical problems?

As for magnesium.....not heard of that. Am currently trying one and a half sennakot as two was apparently too much!

Thanks for the advice.....I did email my surgeon who is on holiday at the moment and will let you know what he says when he gets back to me. My knees keep giving way - have no idea why.

[wendy]

hi rjay

we spoke before (wendy) i can relate to the pins and needles in arms and hands and numbness which when i asked my consultant said it is all normal with deg disc l4/l5 l5/s1. and as for the funny feeling in your feet my sister is in to reflexology and i have really worn and sore bit in the middle of the underneath of my feet and she says the middle represents the spine and mine is sore on the bit representing the lower but also the upper spine caused by tension! so yes this can make your feet feel funny as i have only had problem since my back!!!

hope your op goes ok and keep in touch as mine has now been put back to july am so pissed off at mo as i am banking on this being a cure think if it doesn't will be suicidal X X

good luck x

wendy

[Maria]

rjay
If you have no contraindications for using Magnesium as a laxative you could try that. I have bought it in powder form and mixed it with some hot tea and had good results, however I'm taking opioid pain medication so what I might use for bowel assistance may be like dynamite to your system. We each have to regulate ourselves on our own regime as you are finding out with the Senakot. I think that Senakot S with the stool softener would be too much for you if you had overwhelming results with half a Senakot (sounds like you don't need the stool softener part maybe).

I've probably mentioned this before tho will again. I've had two right knee surgeries so I have some instability and tracking problems in this knee still (left as well) and there have been times that my OSS thought it was my L4 disc that causing my knee problems vs. solely knee itself. I had PT for my low back and knee at this time.

I have various sensations in my right leg particularly, and foot that have been designated to be mostly L5S1 related. Things like numbness of toes, foot, going up the leg, feeling like something is crawling on my leg or there is a wet feeling on the lower aspect of my leg, or drops of water..

Usually I don't even bother to check the leg out anymore to see what's going on tho sometimes the sensations are so very odd that I will check~ always to find there is nothing there (no water, no bugs..) The latest time it felt like I urinated on myself which I definately didn't!!!

Hope you're doing OK and have emailed your doc and gotten a response. I saw my OSS last week and he said my L4 and L5S1 are practically bone on bone thus his explanation of my numerous recent flare ups.