40 Year old L5-S1 Problems..

[martyusa]

Hello all.

Nice informative place you have here and I am seeking some advice, or should I say some information so I can make an educated decision. I apologize if I ramble, but these damn pain meds just seem to make me go on and on. I want off of these things.

Like the header says I am 40 years old. I am a former US Marine, bodybuilder, Martial Artist for over 25 years and a father of 6. And I have a decision to make and need some help.

I have a bulging disc in the L5-S1 area. My disc is torn and I have mild DDD in that disc. I also have a very minor bulge L4-L5 that should be fine in time. I have a lot of pain focused in the lower back area down through the buttocks into the right Hamstring. All of this came to pass from a fall down the steps while holding my youngest Daughter. Both feet came out from under me and all I could do was to hold her tight with both hands. My tail bone hit the steps and I rode the rest of them down. She come out of this unharmed, thank God.

Thus far within the past 12 weeks I have had 3 Epidural injections with little relief and 2 nerve root injection with no relief. The last nerve root injection was a rough one. The Doc hit the nerve with the pin and sent the worse pain I have ever had shoot down my leg. I think the best way I can describe that is a funny bone shot, 10 fold, down the leg.

After all of this the Neurosurgeon has me now going through 6 weeks of PT. The 45 minute ride is enough to send me through the roof, let alone the ride back after we are finished. According to the therapist, she is trying to get the disc to go back in to help with the pain in the leg. When I asked her what are we going to do about the DDD and the tear, she just looked at me as if I had 3 heads. I had to explain to her what could happen in a couple of months when I am back on the mat or in the gym when this disc tears even more. She again looks at me and instructs me to do these meaningless exercises that will do nothing to heal my problem. It is as if MY goals are being ignored.

My doctor is telling me that I am just going to have to deal with this pain and will have to completely change my lifestyle.

Sorry, I'm not ready to quit living yet. I have a very active lifestyle and I need to maintain as much of this as possible to keep my own sanity. It has been 6 months since the original injury that led to all of this and no-one wants to listen. Or maybe it's me that does not want to listen. Or, GIVE UP!

I WILL do a few more bodybuilding comps, I WILL get my 5th degree BlackBelt and I will continue to have a catch with my son and be his coach. I WILL keep this way of life.

I have read everything from Disc replacement to Nucleus replacement to a fusion. With my goals, I feel a fusion is out of the question. Since I have the tear and the FDA has not approved the Dascor product yet, Nucleus Replacement is out. So if I want to maintain that healthy lifestyle it looks like DR is the way to go. I have read that many Doctors have worked with Prodisc II in several athletes and has had great success thus far.

Does anyone have any insight?

[ans]

Hi. I'm sorry you're here. As a Beta male who failed to get drafted b/c of asthma...it would help if we knew where you were geographically and also how far you are willing to go to get some opinions from Grade A doctors. Also, some information about your MRI would be useful and if you've had a discogram and other medical stuff. There's some very bright people here who aren't docs (well, there's one) but they can steer you right. There is no reason anyone in the medical community should disrespect you. Speaking as a former 30+ weightlifter, I urge you to lift very light and do many reps for tone and endurance vs. for bulk/power. The toughest person can be brought down by a bad back.

Wishing you my best ~ Allan

[martyusa]

The first MRI in June, Read- L5-S1 Tiny Disc Protrusion no narrowing and no loss of disc signal. All of the other discs were fine.

The MRI in Sept., Read - L5-S1 Small disc bulge with an annular tear. Mild DDD with minor loss of signal and minor narrowing.

L4-L5 - minor disc bulge with no loss of signal or narrowing.

The MRI also showed a Cyst on my (R) Kidney, which is common for my age and the Doctors felt it was not of any concern.


I did just return from my appointment with the head of Sport Medicine. I explained to him my goals and over emphasized that I want my life back and do not only want to treat the symptom, but would like the root of the problem fixed. I expressed a concern after they get this pain under control about my fears of getting hurt again. As it was explained to me, the tear will NOT heal nor will the Disc. There is a very good chance that this could happen again in the future. They have put me on a Steroid pack and have scheduled me for an EMG to make sure there is no more nerve damage. As well as continue my PT. We will re-evaluate in 2 weeks. I am starting to think that this health system is not up to speed on current technologies. As I was explaining about certain procedures to them, they were looking at me like "We can't do that yet."

We have a lot of old dogs in the Crozer network and the young bucks are just getting into the game. Crozer is now getting a bit more aggressive in recruiting some of these Doctors that are familiar with these new procedures. I mean after all, we are talking about a multi-billion dollar industry once the FDA gets off of it's ass and decides to catch up with the rest of the world.

We'll see!!!

[mmglobal]

Marty, sorry that you need to be her, but glad you found us. Do the MRI's show the nerve compression that is consistent with the nerve symptoms you are having. Is the disc moderately or severely collapsed? (When you describe mild ddd, I presume that it's not. rereading, I see mild loss of signal.. minor narrowing.) There are many treatment options available and I recommend that you learn about them all. Some of the new technologies sound exciting, but are not ready for prime time. Nucleus repairs seem to require an annulus repair for them to be viable. There are a couple of annulus repairs out there that don't seem to get too much attention. Since you are talking about bulges and not tears and protrusions, these may not apply to you.

If you've got good disc height, and are mostly radicular pain... not low back pain, it's hard to imagine that ADR is what you need... Do the axial views on your MRI (horizontal slices) show the compression? If not, chemical irritation of the nerve root may be in play... often with very benign looking MRI's and very poorly understood by many practitioners.

You should be able to come back... but make no mistake that the first cut of the knife is the most important. Do your homework, make informed decisions!

Mark

[martyusa]

Thanks for the reply and suggestions..

I think this is more of a mental situation if anything. I had a competition in July I was getting ready for and this just throws it right out of the window. I've had to have someone cover any classes that I would be teaching until this gets under control and I am still trying to do my manly duties around the house.

It's getting very frustrating but I do see light at the end of the tunnel. About an hour after I had been home from the doctors office, he called me and let me know they were taking a deeper look at this thing. They had suggested an EMG to try to figure out exactly where the damage is and where the pain is coming from. Just the phone call itself showed me that this team cares and understands. I should have gone to Sports Medicine first.

I'll keep us all updated as to the correct course of action for this situation. Fingers are crossed.

[robprodisc]

Hello Marty usa...if you are looking for a Situation report...this may help..

I am a soldier with 19 years in the Army on Main Battle tanks, weight training everyday, Cardio in the morning, MMA twice a week all before August 14 2007 when I had two prodisc put in my back. S1-l5 and l5-l4.

Its now 3 months since the surgery..

Morning routine
Cardio in the morning. (no running, just eliptical or rowing machine 30 minutes of that and than to the back exercises and stomach) 13 minutes into the eliptical my toes start to go numb still. Morning workout 45 to 50 minutes.
Afterwork
Weight train for 50 minutes and 30 minutes of heavy bag and speed bag.
All this may or may not make my sleep a good one. Usually I wake up at 0200 in the morning with the nerve ending humming in my hips and sore calf muscles. Never had problems with my calf muscles before? (I have read this is because they have stretched my nerve ending *Note I have grown one inch after the surgery* anyway with some people the nerve ending will take from 3 to 6 months to get better...or they may never..I am still waiting.
Our MMA club has been shut down for a few months so I havent trained there in a while.

I havent got near the experience you do with MMA, however beside the number of kids and activities we are some what comparable.

The doctor here in Canada has replace a bull riders disc and a olympic athletes back with prodisc...and they still train hard...after that..its up to you how much pain or gain you want...
My biggest fear..I dont want to blow the disc above these two now..so no dead lifts for me.
The only plus side..I dont wake up with a sore stiff back anymore and no back pain..however the hips are humming, just below the hip bone..
If those nerves do shut down..I will give the surgery a 98 percent success..

I hope this is a little bit of help.

[martyusa]

That's what I am looking for. I am not ready to give all that up as of yet.

I have looked at the ProDisc and am still waiting for the Maverick to get approval. There is another product out there I have been looking at, but it in the early stages and has not been approved for testing yet.

All we hear about are the nightmare stories, It's nice to hear good news once in a while.

[martyusa]

Originally Posted by mmglobal

Marty, sorry that you need to be her, but glad you found us. Do the MRI's show the nerve compression that is consistent with the nerve symptoms you are having. Is the disc moderately or severely collapsed? (When you describe mild ddd, I presume that it's not. rereading, I see mild loss of signal.. minor narrowing.) There are many treatment options available and I recommend that you learn about them all. Some of the new technologies sound exciting, but are not ready for prime time. Nucleus repairs seem to require an annulus repair for them to be viable. There are a couple of annulus repairs out there that don't seem to get too much attention. Since you are talking about bulges and not tears and protrusions, these may not apply to you.

If you've got good disc height, and are mostly radicular pain... not low back pain, it's hard to imagine that ADR is what you need... Do the axial views on your MRI (horizontal slices) show the compression? If not, chemical irritation of the nerve root may be in play... often with very benign looking MRI's and very poorly understood by many practitioners.

You should be able to come back... but make no mistake that the first cut of the knife is the most important. Do your homework, make informed decisions!

Mark

Mark,

The pain in my (R) leg seems to be getting a bit easier to tolerate. It is staying more focused in the Back and Glutes. It's a weird feeling as it almost feels like it is a tickly burning numb sensation. But this is only later in the late afternoon after I have been doing whatever around the house. By 6:00 PM, I am not worth a darn unless I take something. And then the pain is still there, I just don't care about it.

The Mornings and evenings have been the toughest. Once I get things warmed up, I can actually stand upright with a little confidence. Mid morning and noon are great, but I have been careful not to go under any false pretense and put my cape back on.

Confidence is going to be my biggest issue. I am that tenacious guy that won't stop. Cautious, but driven for perfection. After speaking with the Doctors, they are telling me the Disc will not heal and I mat need to alter my lifestyle. That's the part that bother me, " alter my lifestyle".

There seems to be no major compression and the Surgeon has even said it's not that bad to merit any of there procedures, yet. No major impingement and they cannot exlain to me how MILD the DDD is or how severe the tear is. And he comes out with that dreaded Phrase again....I feel as if I am getting processed.

I'm kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. I guess my biggest concerns have me wrapped up tight. Let's say we get this disc to pop back in and keep the pain focused in the lower back. Then I'm told to go ahead and resume with normal activities. I feel like they keep putting air in the tire until they find the nail. Then they plug it only for the plug to fail 3 months later while your going 75 MPH down I-95. When they could have just changed the tire from the start.