"Back" into life without surgery!

Marcia · #1 (**permalink**) 04-10-2007, 10:01 PM

Hello everyone. Haven't been on a spiney site for awhile now, but Mark asked if I could post a brief version of my personal story. It's been a long journey and I don't know if anything I discovered for myself will be of benefit to any of you out there, but I sincerely hope my experience will provide hope and encouragement for someone else out there who is looking for solutions. I've been there!

In short, after over one year of continual nagging pain and then an additional ten months of excruciating, relentless, radiating pain from my herniated L5-S1 disc, I was planning on disc replacement surgery in Germany. A year and a half later not only have I not had ANY surgery whatsoever, I am off narcotics and have engaged in many activities that I had feared might never do again. It's wonderful and amazing. I have a life!

Before my "miracle" I tried ALL kinds of treatments: chiropractic (which is what set me over the edge); acupuncture; osteopathy; the DRX 9000 machine; massage; Zyflamed anti-inflammatory mixture; lumbar support brace; Traumeel; Flexeril; Vicodin; Elavil; Lortab; endless ibuprofen; and two brands of Norco; specific yoga exercises. I bought an expensive new bed. And did hypnotherapy. And laid on a lot of ice. Most important, I think, is I made myself keep moving.

What do I think helped? Honestly, it's difficult to say for sure what with all the different remedies I tried. The short version is...

Definitely my background in dance and Pilates was a bonus. I honestly believe safe movement is CRUCIAL.
The Mallincrodt brand of Norco helped me get through my days (without the brain fog other narcotics caused me). Recently I stopped the Norco altogether. I just take generic, liquid-filled ibuprofen once or twice a day!
My beautiful, Spring Air mattress enabled me to finally sleep.
Hypnotherapy helped me stay positive throughout my process. One of the first things I was asked to do was to visualize myself in a place I wanted to be within the next year. I visualized myself in my fuscia pink bathing suit at Haunama Bay in Hawaii. Five months later I was there! Whatever works!
Last but not least, time. Time to heal. My poor body just needed some R & R after those devastating chiropractic (so-called) "treatments".

I still think one day I might go to Dr. Zeeger's clinic in Munich for the non-invasive disc cleanup surgery. But then I might not. Surgery has amazing possibilities these days, and I am thankful for that. I just know that in getting this far without it, I am one happy almost "ex" spiney.

mmglobal · #2 (**permalink**) 04-11-2007, 12:26 AM

Wow! Marcia! Your story promted me to go back and look at your profile... your films were very impressive! This is wonderful for you to come and post your NOT HAD SURGERY success. For many of us, we really don't have an option... but for those of us who can wait and do have a reasonable chance of recovery without surgery, waiting can work. Your case is not unique, but this is not too frequently discussed in the spiney community.

Thanks for sharing... I look forward to talking to you again soon... all the best,

Mark

dshobbies · #3 (**permalink**) 04-11-2007, 01:13 AM

Marcia,

Our brains are the most powerful drug of all. You posessed the right combination of remedies at the right time. I envy your recovery and wish you well. May we all learn from your experience,

Dale

Marcia · #4 (**permalink**) 04-11-2007, 05:36 PM

Thanks Dale and mmglobal for your thoughts. I just want to add that I hope each person out there going through the search finds the right solution for themselves, be it surgery or something else. It's good to reconnect with you all after such a long time.

mmglobal · #5 (**permalink**) 04-13-2007, 10:34 AM

As I mentioned above... Marcia's films were quite dramatic. She's given me permission to post them and I think you'll be impressed.

Look at the size of the disc herniation (not contained) at L5-S1. L4-5 has a bulge or contained herniation. L2-3 is flat and dehydrated (typically not painful, but can be.)

I do believe that her job and fitness level go a long way towards making this possible, but I know others with very big disc herniations, both cervical and lumbar patients, who've had excellent recoveries with no surgery. I think the lentgth of disability is significant. If you've been down for years, that is very different from someone who's had back pain on and off for years, but has only been very bad for a few months. (Although Marcia had been at it for a good while when she first contacted me. She had average pain level 7, 60% low back pain, 40% leg pain. Latest bout of chronic pain was 1.5 years old with it much worse for the last 6 months.)

My spine looked like hers. My discectomies had resolved the leg pain associated with the disc protrusions, but the endless low back pain continued to get worse and worse year after year. I know I couldn't have waited much longer... I think 5 years of pain and 3 years of disability... last year as a shut in was enough. The questions I try to get people to ask themselves are:

1. Am I bad enough to justify surgery?

2. Do I have any reasonable expectation that I'll get better without surgical interventions?

3. If I decide to wait, do I risk giving up options that I have now... that might not be possible later. (Do I already have marginal facets or marginal instability for ADR - if I let it det worse...do I give up options?)

These are tough questions that we face... especially #2. As I tell people... "We have very few options and they all suck. We are just looking for the one that sucks the least."

I'm so glad that Marcia contacted me and is willing to share. While our stories of surgical success give many hope, and the stories of less than successful surgeries add a necessary dose of reality... Marcia's story of success without surgery may help others to achieve it as well.

More later...

Mark

ans · #6 (**permalink**) 04-14-2007, 06:51 AM

Marcia,

Congratulations; this is wonderful news.

My brother who's an MD but knows nothing of backs said that he's read articles e.g. NEJM that sometimes the natural history of bad backs - and verified by MRIs' isn't so bad in the long run. As though there is a flattening out/time. I don't know as I think we're in the minority.

Be well, Allan

Marcia · #7 (**permalink**) 04-14-2007, 09:10 PM

Hi Alan:

That is an interesting theory of your brother's--I'm sure there's some truth to it. In my case, I spend a LOT of time stretching and doing deep core strengthening exercises, too. Otherwise, I don't think I would have made such improvement. I wouldn't say I'm completely healed--yet; just much more "back" into being able to participate in activities without unbearable pain. I don't know what your situation is, but I hope you are doing great. Thanks for your message!

ans · #8 (**permalink**) 04-15-2007, 04:14 AM

Hi M:

I think I got it wrong as there's not always a distinct correlation b/w crummy MRIs and incapcitation e.g. I am active but limited. Also, my bro is making a huge generalization as there are many heterogenous back problems.

But the main point is that you are doing well - and that's w/counts. You reminded me: to get busy re-doing the core exercises!

Be well, Allan

Marcia · #9 (**permalink**) 04-15-2007, 11:07 PM

Hi Again, Alan:

It would be interesting to talk to your brother to understand his ideas (as, for instance, I do not know what NEJM is). Even with a doctor's knowledge and expertise it must be very difficult to find solutions for the different, as you say, "heterogeneous" backs out there. That's one reason I am a proponent of supplementing doctors' advice with seeking alternatives. Maybe because I have always been a movement oriented person, movement helped me? Today I did a back somersault dismounting from a hanging yoga device and I was stoked I could do such a thing again. I definitely think conscious core exercises could benefit most everyone--finding the right exercises and level for each person would be the challenge, eh? Well, best of luck to you. It's great to hear that you're still able to be active! I'm sure you will become less limited soon.

Marcia

mmglobal · #10 (**permalink**) 04-16-2007, 10:13 PM

Spoke to another client today. August of last year, he was screaming for neck surgery. His symptoms were new, so his doc here recommended against doing anything right away. He was hurting so much, that he really wanted to have it anyway and wanted my help in organizing surgery overseas. Shortly after we started discussing potential surgery dates, he called me up and said the symptoms had subsided and he was much better. That was 8 months ago and he's still doing well. (I spoke to him today to get OK to discuss his case online.) Bad pains are still gone. He still has annoying tingling in fingers and occasional sharp pain in elbow, but all symptoms are at annoying levels and do not limit him at all.

Pictures below.

PS... I'm not suggesting that his case applies to anyone else's. These decisions are difficult ones and at times may involve substantial risk.... risk of waiting... risk of doing surgery...

mmglobal · #11 (**permalink**) 11-30-2007, 02:58 AM

Bumping to top for Nicolete... looking for "no surgery" successes!

Good Luck Nicolette!!!! May you never need us for anything!

Mark

PS... edit to add link to another "no surgery success".

mmglobal · #12 (**permalink**) 05-28-2008, 04:30 PM

Bumping to the top for bobbyk

mmglobal · #13 (**permalink**) 04-19-2011, 01:33 AM

It took me a while to find this... there are more of these stories on iSpine but it's been a while since I've done one of these.

Bumping up for CP7959!

Mark

mmglobal · #14 (**permalink**) 04-19-2011, 01:35 AM

OK... I see that the cervical case I wanted to show is here in this thread too... I can stop looking now.

cp7959 · #15 (**permalink**) 04-19-2011, 06:02 PM

Very impressive and encouraging. Thank you Mark for the posts and Marcia for sharing her story.

I am committed to doing core exercises, stretching and inversion table daily. I am looking to add Yoga, just unsure about the twisting poses with a L5/S1 annular tear. Hoping to get advice on that.

It is so good to hear there is hope with out surgery. I made a mistake running into neck surgery so quickly, I do not want to make the same mistake with my low back.

Mark, please keep the positives coming.

Buster005 · #16 (**permalink**) 02-02-2014, 08:14 AM

Hey mate what did you end up doing with your back?
Noel

Maria · #17 (**permalink**) 02-02-2014, 10:17 PM

Please keep us updated. I'm sure there are many people that would like to read about this as much as they would about ADR or fusion or other surgeries in terms of dealing with acute or chronic back problems.

Thanks and continuing to wish you the best Marcia no matter what is going on with your spine thru the years.