Dr. Zeeger protocal?

[Tableone]

Hello:

I am planning LADR for my L4-5 and L5- S1. Dr. Bertagnoli is looking at my case, and I'm waiting to hear back from them. I have also been offered the surgery here in San Francisco, but the price I was given was $70,000.

I found Dr. Zeeger online, and his website seems a bit esoteric...I filled out the form anyway, and now I have gotten several confusing form emails from him, interspersed with some lines directly from him. After reading the small print, it seems he offers some kind of second opinion service for a fee? I don't really understand. This seems unusual to me, as the other doctors all review cases for free. He keeps saying he wants to talk with me on the phone. Is there a fee for this? He seems like a great surgeon from what everyone says, but I am confused. i should add that unfortunately I am a special case as fourteen levels of my spine above the degenerated levels are already fused.

If someone could please clarify about how Dr. Zeeger works, that would be great.

Thanks!

Victoria

[vnf]

Victoria

Dr. Zeeger's charges the highest consult fee of any doctor I've contacted.
I can tell you this, I was very hesitant to pay it and honestly didn't have the money. I emailed him with my "story" and gave him my contact phone number.
He called me the next day. I was shocked by that. There was no charge for this first call. I think it is his way of talking to you and explaining what he does and why he charges what he does. It takes him many hours to give you his opinion.
Most doctor's just want your current xrays, mri, ct, etc.
Some doctor's will use Dropbox, Google docs, etc for you to send your scans and other's want a hard cd mailed to them.

I have talked to MANY doctor's now.
Pimenta and Corenman didn't charge me anything.
Most of the US docs seem to want around $350 (for about 20-30 minutes)
Back in 2011, I paid $400 to have my consult with Boeree and that fee was applied towards surgery if you opted for it with him.
So, when Zeeger's told me his fee was $1,100...I was shocked.
But, my problem is I asked many doctor's for their opinion and was told many different theories so now, which guy do I listen to?
If they were all saying the same thing, that would make life easy but it doesn't work out this way. The fact that I was still hunting for answers also meant, I hadn't found the right doc yet or I'd stop looking.

Zeeger's doesn't diagnose from "films".
He will contact you and have a short discussion.
If you want his opinion, he will want ALL of your tests.
NO OTHER DOCTOR has asked to see my previous tests/films.
Zeeger's is the only doctor who looked at my 2010 MRI/Xrays/etc which was before surgery
He looked at my 2011 MRI/Xrays/etc which was post op
He looked at my 2014 MRI/Xrays/Ct scan/DEXA/etc.
He will send you a questionnaire to fill out.

He went over all of my years of tests.
Even recommended some new tests for me to have done (like a Lyme disease test and a nuclear bone scan).
I have sent him a ton of files.

His response to me was about 17 pages.
It takes him many hours of work to send this back to you.
I have spoke with him SEVERAL times on the phone and I have emailed him MANY times with LOTS of questions.
If I figure how much time I've spent talking with him via phone and emails, he really didn't make any money on me!
He is very patient and doesn't mind that I ask him every question I can think of.

I can tell you from my own experience that he does not pressure you into anything. He is diagnosis only. He likes to say "I am just the mechanic, you have to decide who does the work".
He is the most thorough doctor I have ever spoke with.
What I like about him is he doesn't just say "you need this surgery and it will be this much money".
Zeeger's will explain his diagnosis to you and tell you why he thinks what he does.
Once you speak to him, it's kinda hard to even consider another doctor because no one else was that thorough and that patient with me.

You have to get used to his English. He can seem kinda harsh but he's not really. He has a good sense of humor and after you talk to him a few times, you can figure him out. I can talk to him like I do my family (curse words and all!). The spine is a frustrating thing and can make us nuts!

So, sorry for the long post but I really wanted to tell you that it's the best money I've ever spent. I wished I had found him back in 2010 before my surgery.

It sounds like you are an extremely difficult case and you will require an enormous amount of time for him because he will literally look at all of your previous films/records/scans/bloodwork/etc.
That's what you want. A diagnosis with real thought and explanation behind it.

Mark is like a walking spine dictionary and can be very helpful as well, but since he's in some pain now, I'm guessing that sitting at a pc is challenging at the moment (he'll still do it anyways!).
I would not have my sanity right now if it weren't for Mark's help.
Mark knows many doctor's all around the world and he can guide you as well. Just in case you aren't aware, Mark is MMGlobal on this site.

If you can swing Zeeger's fee, I'd say to do it.
Also, go to his Facebook page. He posts lots of spinal information there as well.
I know that he is trying to have his website redone.
If you need to contact him, this is his email: wzeegers@zeta.demon.nl

If you want to private message me, feel free to.
Hopefully, Mark can give you a shout out too.

[Maria]

Victoria
Since you are a complicated case after reading Vicki's reply I would definitely feel that might be the best $1100 I would spend (or possibly more if fee has increased).

I only paid for one cash consult here in SoCal which Mark (mmglobal) accompanied to me and had actually arranged the appt. for me) and I paid $300 or $400 at the time which was back in 2005. It was a good consultation by what I consider USA standards even though the surgeon was so incredibly busy he still seemed very patient with me and gave what I thought was a better consultation than most of my WC paid for surgical opinions. Thing is as you and everyone who is going thru the process of finding the right "mechanic" to do the work we really want to be as sure as we can be about choosing a surgeon and in my case I was never quite convinced what the "mechanics" could do for me was worth another surgery. You however have much more going on than me so I imagine your need is far greater than mine was or is re having more spine surgery.


Vicki thanks for the time you put into the response to Victoria with so much detail. Based on what you wrote I would definitely put up the $ for a consultation with Dr. Zeegers. Thanks so much for that!

Maria

[vnf]

Since I've talked to so many US and overseas doctor's, I thought it would be good to share the experience as to what you get for your "consultation".
You can't just say well, this guy is free or this guy is $350 etc.
You can do that, I did.
I got an opinion from all the "free" ones.
I figured it couldn't hurt to compare the responses to my situation.

I can honestly say that, in this case, you get what you pay for.

Even if you don't use Zeeger's, the education he gives you is worth it.
Each case is unique and this is why he looks at all of your history.
Zeeger's truly puts a lot of time into trying to share his knowledge.

Believe me, I'm like the three year old who is always asking "why"?
I've asked Zeeger's so many questions, it's ridiculous how many hours he has spent with me and he still talks to me. At this point, he'd probably like to say "this girl's a quack". Instead, he says that he knows I am scared and tells me to ask anything I'd like. I think that's really sweet.

I sent a question into Regan's office because I had thought of one question I forgot to ask him. His office manager said that if I'd like to pay $350, she could have him call me. That $$$ turns me right off.
I'm not sure if Regan is aware that his staff treats people this way, but it makes me feel like "how's he going to be after surgery and I need to speak with him"?

One thing you must realize, NO US doctor is going to give you the time that the overseas doctor will.
Back when I was deciding what to do in 2011, I could email Boeree and Clavel a zillion times and they never minded. Always got an answer back in a day or two. I'm not a Clavel fan but will give him credit for taking time to answer all questions and he never charged me anything.

I hope all of my experiences help some new person who may be just starting their back journey research.

[Maria]

The US has a way of dealing with Medicine that I think is unique to the US and our reimbursement systems. I have gone to Mexico for medical consultations and paid so little and gotten so much in terms of politeness, time, consideration, explanation, etc.

I consulted with a number of spine surgeons regarding a 3rd spine surgery but because WC would not pay for it out of the country and I felt that what I really given in the US was based upon what would be reimbursed thru WC I didn't feel comfortable going for a 3rd spine surgery given what I was told.

The 2nd surgical opinion Neurosurgeon WC sent me to that Mark accompanied to the visit was probably the most thorough US doctor I had consulted with since my 1st spine surgery in 1989. He wouldn't have been the surgeon to do the surgery however and even though the surgeon that WC ultimately authorized re ADR at L4 and fusion at L5S1 I didn't feel comfortable with him even though at one time I would have jumped to have surgery performed by him.

So I too agree you get what you pay for although I have to say one USA spine surgeon called me back from his home after I had called the office back in 2001 and asked his office secretary about 3 level global fusions as this surgeon had (has) an incredible reputation and the guy totally surprised me by calling me back from his home at my home and spending a half hour on the phone with me asking why I was considering a 3 level global fusion and while offering to see me if I wanted a consultation with me also turned me on to the idea of going thru Pain Management to see if that would be helpful.

To this day I am so thankful for a Dr. Whitman (Pain Management) that I encountered on a Massachusetts General Spine Forum that actually answered people's posts and was just a great contribution to the site I thought as well as Dr. Dillon in Southern California that was part of the Kerlan Jobe Spine Clinic (the surgeon that returned the call to me from his home after a work day). They both gave me great insight into why I might want to keep checking things out before committing to a 3 level global fusion and I am so glad they did.

And this is also where I first encountered Mark (mmglobal) before he had his lumbar ADRs done!

Yes this was all free though I guess what I'm saying is checking things out, calling offices, talking to people and surgeons everything to me was a big part of making my decisions thus far regarding more spine surgery. I do believe you get what you pay for in terms of consultations however I also believe there are some incredible people out there that give of their free time willingly and they can give some incredible insight and direction as well. Mark Mintzer (mmglobal) also helped me by listening to me and helping me with my WC consultations and just understanding the whole process from inside out since he has been thru it himself as well as all the spine specialists connections he has and his ability to truly be an advocate in this field.

Another important thing I looked at when considering surgery which Vicki I think you addressed is how do I feel with the manner in which I'm treated by the office staff. Are they relaying messages/questions I have? Are things getting done in a timely manner insurance wise? If I think I'm having difficulties before surgery me personally I'm definitely not going into with this surgeon because pre surgery is like the courtship.. after surgery is the sealed deal that's already paid for .. though I expect to be treated the same as before the surgery (and payment).

Good luck Victoria. I hope you will find the best surgeon you are able to help you with your specific needs. Please do keep us posted if you have the time/desire.

Maria

[Tableone]

Hi and thanks so much to both of you ladies for clarifying that for me!

[henry4956]

I can confirm everything Vicki has told you regarding Dr. Zeegers.