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Years of Pain no solid diagnosis
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| iSpine Discuss Years of Pain no solid diagnosis in the Main forums forums; Originally Posted by Billy Bob Sorry, but I don't know what a Dermatone is. Can you help on that? ... |
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10-08-2013, 11:41 PM
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If your problems exist within one of these areas then it may explain which nerve is being affected and possibly what level of the spine that is causing the problem. For instance, all the problems that I have suffered with this summer, numb little toe, sensory changes to the heel, terrible calf and buttock pain, have all existed within the S1 Dermatome. These symptoms combined with my MRI results from 18 months ago that showed the disc at the lumbar/sacral junction bulging and contacting the S1 nerve, indicate quite conclusively what is going on. I guess at the beginning of June that bulging disk finally ruptured and well and truly squashed the S1 nerve. 
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10-11-2013, 08:08 PM
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Billy Bob as far as dermatomes go my doc knew immedietly that my foot drop would be effected by the L5 nerve, It covers the top of the foot and the flexing ability. Each nerve has its area that it is that it takes care of. I hope all of this explains it to you.
Seems like the test you have not had from reading this post is the discography. As they stick needles into each disc , you can tell if one is offending. I had horrible pain that was spreading in my thoracic spine a few years ago, all tests including MRi showed nothing wrong. But my pain was getting progressively worse including the intensity as well as the area it was involved in. well when that needle went into T7 i cried it hurt so bad, i was moaning and the doctor had to stop for a few minutes to try to calm me down. There was another lower one that hurt pretty bad too, so my surgery was planned out of the outcome of that one test. I just wish this can get figured out for you. Get copies of all your test results . Then if you are able to go to another doc, you have everything they need. Are you able to go to another doctor by the way? I know you mentioned you are not thrilled with the one you have. Judy
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2007 ACDF 4-7 2008 hip , knee scope, hip replacement 2009 thoracic T-5 thru T-11fusion 2009 VATS T7-8, posterior only T11-12. removal of thoracic hard wear 2010 lung surgery 2010 T2-L2 kyphosis correction 2010 Kyphoplasty T-3, T-4 2011 Cervical osteotomy ,revision C4-T5 2011 Foot surgery 2011 Revision fusion T7 thru L4/laminectomy 2012 Hammertoe correction left foot 2012 Revision fusion T-12 thru L5 2012 Revision fusion L4-L5
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10-15-2013, 05:54 PM
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Yes the deramtones make sense now. I think mine is more L4 and L5 and maybe S1. RE: Doctor... My DO (gen practitioner ) is a life saver. She keeps my meds caught up, got me this amazing back brace, get some amazing vitamins that help people with diabetic style nerve pain. She goes the extra mile, over and over. The spinal surgeon... Their office is supposedly one of the best in the area. But they deal heavily with workmans comp cases. I just feel like they don't give a sh!t about me. Plus I had the three nerve root injections that caused more bad than good in the long run. LUCKILY, I can go to other doctors. I have some very very good connections at some medical institutions. I am going to get at least one more opinion as well as one last try with the spinal doc I have been seeing. While I am terrified of surgery I will do it if it cause this to end. I have had two operations in the past. Both for bad injuries, but neither were related or had anything to do with my back (foot and hand). I am just so very scared to have some one do surgery on my back. But like I said I will do it. Or take the right med combo, or PT combo or whatever it is. I just want to get back to lifting weights. I know is sounds silly. But being a big strong guy, almost always the strongest guy in the room, defined who I was. Now I am the "old guy" or "becareful of your back"... Guys and Gals Thank all of you. I really really appreciate your help and advice.
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10-16-2013, 06:50 PM
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just saying
Doctor's office acts like they don't give a sh*t going into surgery makes me wonder what they'll act like on the other side especially if there are problems vs. "perfect outcome."
If you do not have emergent reasons to have spine surgery don't rush yourself or go with someone who you have a not so good feeling about re surgery because believe me if you end up with less than good or OK results or bad results you're going to probably kick yourself in the behind for jumping the gun because you "were tired of being in pain or tired of the way things are".... Back surgeries are like no other surgery with regard to predictability of outcome. Spine surgery does not always fix things and oft times one will either have a long haul to recovery which can be surprising unless the surgeon prepares one for this (with a possible bumpy road recovery) or the recovery will not be what is expected and one might have to have more surgeries because of the surgery that one had "to FIX things." If you are prepared for the above type of results as well as good results then you are prepared. Also I would never tell anyone who needed truly emergency spine surgery to wait but I would tell those who have a choice to really feel very comfortable with the decision you are making for all the right reasons (don't justify) because spine surgery is a super big deal/ordeal and if things don't go your way and the surgeon did everything he or she was supposed to do right and it still didn't turn out "the way expected" one doesn't want to be kicking themselves in the arse regarding his or her own decision to have surgery. So please take the time to check this sitch out as thoroughly as you are able before committing yourself to surgery and then be prepared to accept results whatever they might be. We are all often unrealistic at what we think can be achieved with spine surgery or at least how quickly it might be achieved and/or without any other type of little problems or complications that could occur. Good luck to you and I do hope whatever you do will help you to feel much much better and last a long time! Maria
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10-16-2013, 08:08 PM
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Billy Bob,
You must listen to Maria she gives very good advice. i on the other hand have teneded to go into back surgery hoping to get back to some of the things i am used to doing., i know how you feel, although i have never been the strongest gal , i have been in pretty good shape and as i loose more and more of what i used to be able to do it is difficult, and i don't like it. I understand wanting to do it to get back to weight lifting. I know i will never get back to trail running or any kind of running, but now would like to be able to hike, which to me is a downgrade. I am dealing with a few issues right now spine wise which i certainly would like to not be dealing with. I have an MRi coming up on the 26th and am EMg wihout a date yet and now have to deal with my body not being able to deal with a nerve pain drug, gabapentin which was doing wonders for my leg and foot. so i must stop it as i have gained like 14 pounds in less than a week and that does nothing for the person who just wants to be in good shape and get to exercise. So keep us posted and i will do the same judy
__________________
2007 ACDF 4-7 2008 hip , knee scope, hip replacement 2009 thoracic T-5 thru T-11fusion 2009 VATS T7-8, posterior only T11-12. removal of thoracic hard wear 2010 lung surgery 2010 T2-L2 kyphosis correction 2010 Kyphoplasty T-3, T-4 2011 Cervical osteotomy ,revision C4-T5 2011 Foot surgery 2011 Revision fusion T7 thru L4/laminectomy 2012 Hammertoe correction left foot 2012 Revision fusion T-12 thru L5 2012 Revision fusion L4-L5
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10-16-2013, 08:41 PM
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I must also state the following
Ok I'm deleting what I wrote and just adding that it's great you have a good internist or GP. I have had some really good D.O.'s as practitioners and they can really help out quite a bit if they know their stuff re the spine and know what they're doing with manipulation. I never have gotten high velocity manip only low velocity.
I remember when I used to go the gym religiously and I was in very good shape overall except for my crappy spine. Even so it was being in good shape that I think saved me overall with all the probs I've had over all the years that I have. While I would love to return to the gym and work out like I once did I would have to say that now my goals are more realistic for me which is just to try and live as pain free as I'm able and to stay mobile. Even that is a challenge and oft times not related as much to my spine as it is to other body parts though I have to say my spine is always playing a part in there somewhere. I'm older now however and much more patient with myself than 30 years ago when all this stuff started. Whatever your situation is and whatever the problem might be I wish you the best with whatever you do or try to make things better! Maria Last edited by Maria; 10-16-2013 at 09:04 PM.
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10-17-2013, 06:55 PM
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Quite similar to me. Been off work a year, in pain for about a year and a half. Been told multiple things and had numerous scans. Eventually get told I had a protruding disc then get told "I don't think that#s the cause, we can do nothing more for you"
I know how frustrating it is, it feels as if they don't believe you.
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11-04-2013, 09:25 PM
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I am so sorry to hear all of this. I do have to say though I am really glad I found all of you guys on this forum. It has helped me a lot already. Judy as far as the down grade from hard core running to more leisurely hiking. I totally understand what you mean. While I never competed I was very very strong. And to be honest my fanaticism about lifting weights, and other physical activities I used to participate in, might be the cause of my isssues. I hope the MRI and EMG give good rather than bad info. Best of luck and keep us posted.
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11-04-2013, 09:45 PM
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Maria, Thanks for all of the great advice. My last goal here is to have surgery. I mean if I get a diagnosis that indicates I need surgery I will entertain the thought. However I will most likely get at least one second opinion if my doctors states that I need to have surgery. Fortunately I have only had two operations in my life. One was very successful and the other was mediocre. Neither of these operations were for my back (fortunately). I am perhaps most lucky because my father is a doctor. I have fought hard to not involve him in this issue (he is not a spinal surgeon, but he has almost 40 years of experience in emergency medicine). I wanted to try to handle this on my own. But after a year of living in pain, and no one can figure out why, I started reaching out to him for help (he was more than willing, I just wanted to be a big boy). He and I for almost another this entire year are putting our heads together to try to get this solved. He tells me he knows something is not right because he sees the way I am moving. He can tell I am in pain. And he has actually had a couple of disc issues, one of which what required surgery (was very successful). However I remember him warning me about back surgery way before I ever had issues. This was when he was having issues and he was reluctant to go into surgery. He mentioned how one of his co-workers had to have back surgery and ended up having to retire because of the outcome. So he got lucky, but he too didn't sugar coat any of the possible outcomes. I guess what I would really like is just a solid diagnosis. I don't want to feel like I am dreaming all of this or making it all up. Luckily I have not felt that way to much yet. However I have my first visit with my spinal doc (in a while) this friday. I am going in hopes of two things. First I hope he has another direction to take all of this in or new things to try. Second, hopefully he "believes" me. I don't want to be treated like I am trying to get money out of this (his office does a lot of work man comp). The last thing I want on earth is to slow down, and get paid for not working... I love my job. I have fought tooth and nail to get where I am at in the world. Ok I am rambling now. Everyone, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. the comments and relations mean a lot to me.
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11-14-2013, 06:13 PM
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Had my appointment with Spinal surgeon on Friday.
They took a bunch more Xrays and found a good deal more arthritis in L4 and L5. Then he took my most recent MRI, and looked again. He found mild disk buldges in 3 spots, more arthritis, and narrowing of somethig.... Can't remember the word he used. I am scheduled for another MRI on the 18th and then most likely micro surgery. I have to be honest I am pretty scared.... Everything he found was mild or minor, but I am wondering if it all could add up to something that is causing my pain. I guess we will see with the fresh MRI.
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11-17-2013, 05:02 PM
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what the MRI says and what you feel
Can be two very different things. I had a small bulge for a long time at L5S1 that I was told by every surgeon I saw for a long time "shouldn't" have been giving me the symptoms it was ... but it did and the symptoms were severe for me and very disruptive to my life. Especially when my back would go out every other month and I would be off my feet for 4 weeks or so in bed recovering. That was the point of my first discectomy.
I'm wondering if you were told you have stenosis? I think the updated MRI will give a better idea of what's going on and perhaps before you have a micro discectomy you'll have some other tests to make sure the suspected involved disc(s) is/are the ones really causing you pain. Wishing you the best and please keep us updated! Maria
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10-15-2013, 05:44 PM
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This sounds VERY similar to the pain that I have. But the MRIs do not show a bulged disc. But the Pain never really goes away. Nuerontin really helped with the intense shooting pains. But nothing really seems to totally block the constant dull pain.
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