Nerve Damage S1/L5

[housemd89]

Hi, I have been suffering with mainly left knee/foot/calf pain and lower back pain for about 9 months now. I have a lump on my lower back that swells up every now and again and is extremely painful. Been to GPs several times and all they did was give me pain killers. After finally getting an appointment with someone at physio within about 10 minutes she said I had never damage between S1/L5 (when i lay on my back she tried to lift my left leg when it was straight and it was so tight i couldn't do it, she also pointed out my left foot is turning inwards and has a huge bone sticking out possibly due to muscle degeneration).

Anyway I've to do exercises then see her again soon but after doing a few of the exercises the lump on my back has swollen right out again and bigger than before (along my pelvis bone), the middle of my back hurts now, my left foot keeps getting these weird sensations and i'm also getting pain down my left thigh now.

She reckons i'll need an MRI but i'm curious if anyone on here has had similar problems? I've been reading up on disc degeneration and bulging discs and they seem similar to what i'm feeling. I also thought sciatica but the physio said i would be in the same amount of pain all the time with that.

Ps - Sorry for the long post.

[mmglobal]

The positive straight leg raise (SLR) does not indicate nerve damage, it indicates nerve compression that has a mechanical component that can be fired up with the SLR. If you have muscle atrophy that may be another story, however, it may or MAY NOT be related to the lumbar issue that is demonstrated by the SLR.

The muscle atrophy would up the ante and provide more urgency to identify the problem. Why would they wait on an MRI? Please remember, I'm not a doctor and can be completely wrong.

Mark

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by mmglobal

The positive straight leg raise (SLR) does not indicate nerve damage, it indicates nerve compression that has a mechanical component that can be fired up with the SLR. If you have muscle atrophy that may be another story, however, it may or MAY NOT be related to the lumbar issue that is demonstrated by the SLR.

The muscle atrophy would up the ante and provide more urgency to identify the problem. Why would they wait on an MRI? Please remember, I'm not a doctor and can be completely wrong.

Mark

Hey thanks for your reply. Well after having a few months of this pain all i've wanted is an MRI or some kind of scan to make sure there is no problem. Because the pain started in my foot i thought it was possibly a stress fracture which then healed wrong and caused all these problems but as you said we're not doctors.

I feel as if the doctors i've been seeing don't really care and just think it's normal back pain, when i showed my GP the bony lump she said "bony lumps are normal". How can they be normal when i didn't have before! I'm seeing my doctor again next week and i'm going to request an MRI and file a complaint if they don't.. i'm sick of being in pain and have had to take time off work now.

[grantwb1]

Housemd89, "bony lumps are normal", those kind of statements by doctors alarm me sometimes. Doctors are humans to and are subject to the same kind of mistakes we are. If you feel you doctors are not giving you a fair shake then go to another one if you can. Bedside manner isn't everything in a doctor but I want to know that he is engaged in my matter otherwise I am wasting my money and time. I don't try and pick the guy I like the most but the one that seems like they know what to do and are willing to pay diligence to my case! Choose wisely!

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by grantwb1

Housemd89, "bony lumps are normal", those kind of statements by doctors alarm me sometimes. Doctors are humans to and are subject to the same kind of mistakes we are. If you feel you doctors are not giving you a fair shake then go to another one if you can. Bedside manner isn't everything in a doctor but I want to know that he is engaged in my matter otherwise I am wasting my money and time. I don't try and pick the guy I like the most but the one that seems like they know what to do and are willing to pay diligence to my case! Choose wisely!

Yeah I agree, I've seen 4 docs and only one actually took the time to ask me lots of questions.. the others didn't seem interested. I've to go back next week and if I'm not happy with how they are dealing with me I'm going to file a complaint and go private.

[housemd89]

Well after trying my exercises for a little while (did as many as i could but sometimes it was too paniful ..also my second and third toe on my left foot curl up sometime and it's agony, they takes ages to un-curl) I went and seen my physio again and she showed me two more exercises.. Just from doing one in her office today my whole left leg feels as tight as ever and has been pretty damn sore.

Is it normal for this much pain with basic physio exercises?

I asked her if she could say to my doctor about a refferal for an MRI and she said "you will only get an MRI if you need surgery" ... eh well how do i know if i need surgery without an MRI! I see my doctor again in a few days so here's hoping he does something or as I've said I will go private, it does cost a bit but you can space it out over a few months.

[housemd89]

Been told to continue physio for at least a few more weeks. Also been told I have a tilted pelvis and will be put on new pain killers if the pain continues to get worse, they were called neuro somthing can't remember the exact name, anyone had these before and did they help with nerve pain?

[rabbit]

Neurontin ?? Can be used for chronic neurogenic pain.
Neurontin Information from Drugs.com

Originally Posted by housemd89

I feel as if the doctors i've been seeing don't really care and just think it's normal back pain, when i showed my GP the bony lump she said "bony lumps are normal". How can they be normal when i didn't have before!

Coming from a physician that does this a lot, bony lumps are "normal", or nothing to be concerned about. I can't think of a single common disease process that would have you develop a "bony lump" that you could feel. Sure, facet joints degenerate, you can develop ligamentous calcifications, but all of these you likely would not be able to feel as a 'lump'. Sure, there are other things like sarcomas, etc. that could lead to dystrophic calcifications, etc. but those are exceedingly rare and you would know by now if you had something serious like that. I know people are always desperate for answers, but I just don't understand why people persist in 'Monday night quarterback-ing' their medical health, and don't trust their physicians when they say something is normal. Anyway, the most likely cause of a bony lump is weight loss, and being able to feel structures that you normally cannot. Assuming you haven't had weight loss, then the next most common thing is a lump that has been there all along that you are just starting to feel now. These are the two most common things. Then there is the list of scary but rare things that could be considered, but most of these you would have noticed by now in other ways.

[blg814]

Back in 02 I had a micro discectomy, L4, L5. Result cured the intense debilitating pain from the S1 being impinged. However, I have have residual desensitization in my left calf and left side of my foot. It feels like my foot is being squeezed inside a ski boot that is too tight. I just try not to think about it and try to forget it. Some days are worse than others. Some times I feel those pins and needles as well. No form of physio or exercise can cure nerve damage. I tried neurontin but it made me feel like crap. My only shot is to go back under the knife and perhaps have some new discs put back in if that's even possible.

[Griffen]

Housemd89,

Two years ago I had exactly the same symptoms.Persistent pain in lower back,buttocks,legs & feet.Also tender swelling in lower back. In my case the pains & pins & needles were due to trapped nerves in the L5 & L4 area. The swelling was due to inflammation. I had an X ray which showed an old gardening injury left untreated for 20 years was now causing problems. I then had an MRI to give a clearer picture.

In my case I have an unstable spine so have just completed a course of physio therapy. Some of the exercises actually made it worse so you do need to be aware that not all exercises will be beneficial. The main thing is to exercise everyday so you keep as flexible as you can. I find walking the easiest & most beneficial followed by stretching. What also helps is getting the correct medication for your condition. In my case something for pain with an anti inflammatory component. The swelling has gone & the pain is mostly controlled. My lifestyle has had to change too as I need to move about a bit every hour or so or I get very stiff.

Hope this helps.

[housemd89]

blg814 - Sorry to hear that, sounds bad. I'm the same as you with some days being worse than others. I just really want to know what's causing this, my GP has put me on the list to see a senior physiotherapist which could take up to 3 months (even though i asked to be reffered to a neurologist). All I want is an MRI to see exactly what's up but she basically said unless i can't walk or having uncontrolable bowel movements they wouldn't send me for a scan. I've only been on neurotin for a few weeks and not noticed much difference but going to finish the course and see how it goes.I hope you get some relief from the pain.

Griffen - Thanks for that, my physio hasn't gone well at all. I do keep trying to do the basic exercises and try to get out for a walk now and then but it's too much pain. My swelling has been random, sometimes it pops up when i do nothing or when i've been trying to exercise. After new year i think i'm going to pay for a scan privately seen as the NHS has been useless so far. Quite worried incase like you it's been an old injury that's been untreated.

[Griffen]

Once you know what is going on & learn to adapt it is nowhere near so worrying.There are good days & not so good days but you kind of get use to it.

My advice would be to make an appointment to see a private consultant. Then, if an MRI etc is needed, ask if you could have that as an NHS patient. If nothing else you may be seen & get a scan quicker.

If you go down that route write up a kind of "victim impact statement" making a list of all your symptoms,how it is affecting your life,treatments to date & any questions you have. Dress up smartly & take it with you so that you can make sure you don't forget anything.I found you get better results if you are fairly business like about the whole thing. Strange but true.

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by Griffen

Once you know what is going on & learn to adapt it is nowhere near so worrying.There are good days & not so good days but you kind of get use to it.

My advice would be to make an appointment to see a private consultant. Then, if an MRI etc is needed, ask if you could have that as an NHS patient. If nothing else you may be seen & get a scan quicker.

If you go down that route write up a kind of "victim impact statement" making a list of all your symptoms,how it is affecting your life,treatments to date & any questions you have. Dress up smartly & take it with you so that you can make sure you don't forget anything.I found you get better results if you are fairly business like about the whole thing. Strange but true.

Thanks alot for that. Just curious, were you're feet always cold as well?

[Griffen]

I didn't suffer from cold feet.Instead, pain along the arch of the foot,aching ankle/ankles,sore knees & feeling as tho my legs were being slapped with really awful stinging nettles,crawling sensations, aching pains in the buttocks & sore lower back. Sometimes it only affected one leg sometimes both. I also found it was difficult to walk sometimes because I lost power to the legs.

The thing I have learnt is that pain sensations are only error messages issued at random & depend on the degree of nerve pinch.In my case any inflammation will pinch the nerves more & cause the "heavy leg" feeling.

[jsewell]

I have always had cold feet as long as i can remember. I have had some significant spine surgery in the last 5 years and am pretty much fused except for the upper cervical levels and the lowest lumbar level. It has been painful at times. Related to the issue of nerve problems in the lumbar area effecting the legs and lower back, i had surgery in Aug 2012 to repair 2 fractures as well as fuse L4-5. Well i woke up from that one in so much pain, i can't even explain it. I could NOT put any weight on my right leg and little on my left leg. Pain even when not weight bearing. I went home from the hospital after a week and came home able to do nothing except get to the toilet (with lots of pain) and get back to bed. Every 4 days i would suffer the trip upstairs to the shower. It was horrible. I had to wait for my insurance co to approve the surgery to go backwards and reverse what had been done. It was approved quickly as an emergency basis, then i had to wait for my doc to have a free moment on his schedule. Unfortunatley the whole waiting period was 5 weeks.
I felt pretty darn good after the surgery, the weakness of the legs was still there, but no pain , except surgical pain and the back pain was back. It is a long road to regain as much spine health as possible. It sucks!! I used to be a mountain trail runner 4 years ago. Then reduced to hiker and now i dont even go for a walk. The leg pain has come back in the opposite leg that caused the most problem, i have had epidural injections that have helped things, but this must be an ongoing process.
sorry this has been such a long long post.
Oh my ct after the first surgery while i was in excrutiating pain showed nothing abnormal. A few weeks before the second surgery it showed that the screws were pulling out.
so just wanted to share and maybe give someone some insight. Any questions feel free to ask.
Everyone get better!!!
judy

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by jsewell

I have always had cold feet as long as i can remember. I have had some significant spine surgery in the last 5 years and am pretty much fused except for the upper cervical levels and the lowest lumbar level. It has been painful at times. Related to the issue of nerve problems in the lumbar area effecting the legs and lower back, i had surgery in Aug 2012 to repair 2 fractures as well as fuse L4-5. Well i woke up from that one in so much pain, i can't even explain it. I could NOT put any weight on my right leg and little on my left leg. Pain even when not weight bearing. I went home from the hospital after a week and came home able to do nothing except get to the toilet (with lots of pain) and get back to bed. Every 4 days i would suffer the trip upstairs to the shower. It was horrible. I had to wait for my insurance co to approve the surgery to go backwards and reverse what had been done. It was approved quickly as an emergency basis, then i had to wait for my doc to have a free moment on his schedule. Unfortunatley the whole waiting period was 5 weeks.
I felt pretty darn good after the surgery, the weakness of the legs was still there, but no pain , except surgical pain and the back pain was back. It is a long road to regain as much spine health as possible. It sucks!! I used to be a mountain trail runner 4 years ago. Then reduced to hiker and now i dont even go for a walk. The leg pain has come back in the opposite leg that caused the most problem, i have had epidural injections that have helped things, but this must be an ongoing process.
sorry this has been such a long long post.
Oh my ct after the first surgery while i was in excrutiating pain showed nothing abnormal. A few weeks before the second surgery it showed that the screws were pulling out.
so just wanted to share and maybe give someone some insight. Any questions feel free to ask.
Everyone get better!!!
judy

Thanks for the reply, that sounds a hard journey you've been through, hopefully you get better soon.

My cold feet are weird as I don't feel them cold but when i touch them they are always freezing, is yours the same? I notice in your sig you had hammertoe correction and was curious how did it start? My toes are always cramping up and bending in weird ways and it's very hard to get them back to normal and every i'm praying they don't stick like that. What caused your spine problems?

I'm just furious that i've had this since last April and not had one diagnostic test.

[jsewell]

I have no idea how the hammertoes formed. They are on both feet well i had the 4 toes operated on in the left side. Yesterday i walked into a door and broke at least one of them, it is so bruised and not quite in the same position it should be.
As far as what started all the spine problems, I wish i really knew. One thing i have is hypopituitarism. So my pituatary which is the master gland is not performing well. The hormones are very powerful things and when replacing it is very difficult to get the adjustments that Mother Nature is so good at. One of the functions of growth hormone after you have finished growing is to maintain bone density or help a lot in the process. So far i have not been able to convince my insurance co that i need the replacement treatment because it is expennsive. So therefore i have got a lot of spine fractures . Also my neck broke in a very strange way. It was very technically difficult surgery to perform and not done very much at all. I only found one case in the UK from a while ago. One surgery throws everything else out of alignment and i did start off with scoliosis too. I will also need to go on some bone density meds when my most recent fusions have healed to a certain level.

I sure hope you can get some diagnostics going on . It must be so frustrating. When i lived in Georgia with an HMO my doc said no one would ever touch my back , it he could only see my incision down from my neck to my butt. They sure did nothiing in the east coast but push anit inflammatories which proceeded to ruin my stomach. I really am a mess!!
again good luck
judy

[housemd89]

Just curious to any UK members, I have priced an MRI privately and they said I need a referral from ym doctor or I could see a consultant privately then see what he thinks. Any one know what's the best idea? Just get the scan?

[housemd89]

Ok some help needed please. I'm just back from seeing a senior physio who said i have hyper mobility and altered neurodynamics and a very bad core. She said it will be a long road back to recovery but still thinks i don't need a scan as "you only need a scan if you are getting surgery". Again i replied with surely you scan to see if you need surgery not the other way about (it's all about money saving). So I told her i'm going private and getting a refferal from my GP on Friday. She then tried to persuade me not to and said "a scan could show i have a prolapsed disc when i have no symptoms". So not sure what that's about but this is almost 10 months i have been suffering and i've had enough.

Anyway sorry for the rant and back on topic has anyone had similar problems like hyper mobility and altered neuro dynamics?

[mmglobal]

Your physio deals with the failures and is trying to keep you from being one. Great outcomes spend little time with him. I appreciate the sentiment that spine surgeons may be too quick to act upon pathology observed in the imaging, but that does not mean that the imaging will not be useful. It is not the be-all, end-all decider. Not doing a scan because it may lead to surgery is absurd. It is only another one of many tools that will be used to help you make a more informed decision about your treatment.

Having said all that... spine surgery sucks and should be avoided if possible. My little rant above is very useful info... but if you find yourself with failed back surgery, it will seem like very bad advice.

Mark

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by mmglobal

Your physio deals with the failures and is trying to keep you from being one. Great outcomes spend little time with him. I appreciate the sentiment that spine surgeons may be too quick to act upon pathology observed in the imaging, but that does not mean that the imaging will not be useful. It is not the be-all, end-all decider. Not doing a scan because it may lead to surgery is absurd. It is only another one of many tools that will be used to help you make a more informed decision about your treatment.

Having said all that... spine surgery sucks and should be avoided if possible. My little rant above is very useful info... but if you find yourself with failed back surgery, it will seem like very bad advice.

Mark

Yeah I tried to explain to her surgery is the last thing I want, it's typical NHS wanting to save money. I think going to go private gave them the kick they needed and they phoned to tell me I am getting a scan, good news at last. They seem to think I may have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, the hypermobility type. I have read online this can cause scollosis and herniated discs.

[housemd89]

Well got my MRI done today so hopefully I won't be waiting too long for results. Just curious, near the end of the scan i was in the machine for about 10 minutes with nothing happening (no sounds from machine) and it kinda got me worried that they had seen something, or is that normal?

[jsewell]

I have had many MRI's for different areas and i still can't figure our all the noises and the silence. But yesterday i had an EMG study of both legs. The findings were that Level 5 nerves are inflammed and not very happy. So that explains the numbness i had experienced in my right foot although i am not sure if that level is just some of the toes or the whole foot. Also explains other pains in my right hip area.
Now i see my surgeon on Tuesday to go over the results and what he will do with this information.
I hope you get your MRI results quickly and share them with us.
judy

[Maria]

Usually they inform you the MRI is done and then get you out within 5 mins or so maybe quicker if the person is claustrophobic or anxious. I doubt it means anything that you were left in there 10 mins unless there was a question as to whether to repeat something or ?? but think it just happened.
Hope you get your results soon and good explanation of the MRI, recommendation and so forth. Even with the information surgery unless imperative due to neurodeficits or some emergent reason for surgery is really your decision, your option, your choice.

Judy, I surely hope you don't have to have more surgery unless it's hardware removal! Good luck!

[housemd89]

Well my MRI results have shown an hemangioma of the lumbar spine. That's all they told me over the phone and I have to go in and see my doctor. Anyone had this?

[firemedix911]

It could be the cause of your pain maybe it isn't. It is fairly common in about 10% of the population so don't be alarm. Basically it means there's abnormal vascularity around a vertebra. Just don't be alarmed. I had a good friend who had the same issue and they didn't even have to do anything about it. Talk to your Dr he knows what to do best. Good luck.

[jsewell]

I am glad you finally had that MRI. Let us know what the doctor says about it.
judy

[housemd89]

Thanks guys.

Well after speaking to my physio who also had a copy of the results I apparantely have 3 of those things, One in T10, S3 and S5 (i think). No word on size or anything. Trying to get a copy of my MRI results to get a better idea of what's going on. I can't believe they never told me I had 3, regardless if they are causing the problem or not.

[jsewell]

I don't know anything about hemangioma's but in my experience with these medical things , rarely is everything included. Only when it is the direct target, in my case anyway.
For instance i just got my EMG study of my legs. I went to see my surgeon and read it after i left his office. Well he did mention the biggies, like nerve damage in my left ankle, and the source of my current back pain which is damage to L5 nerve root . Basically what you had titled your thread.
When reading the report, i find out i have permanent damage to several nerves in my right leg causing muscle weakness. The L5 damage is why my toes and right foot are going numb. But there were lots of interesting things left out. Same with my recent sleep study, i will pick up the report on Monday but the tech doing the study told me more already than the doctor mentioned. He just thinks that the CPAP machine will fix things so didn't talk much about atrial fibrillation occuring which is scaring me!!!
Sorry this was too long. just don't want you to feel you are getting bad service or something, but they should certainly explain what the heck they are and what they are doing.
Judy
At least you are making some progress though

[jsewell]

I just googled vertebral hemangioma and much as firemedix stated mostly are no problem or can be causing symptoms mostly the nerve kind . But you definitely have to get them explained to your satisfaction when you seee your doctor. I only looked briefly and did not see anything about multiple ones., I would think it could be a vascular problem., Just my nervous about anything brain speaking.
I would suggest you google them
Write down questions for the doctor
Make sure he answers them all.
Block the doorway if you have to
I have only had to use that technique once and it was for a student of mine that i was with.
When is your appointment?
Judy

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by jsewell

I just googled vertebral hemangioma and much as firemedix stated mostly are no problem or can be causing symptoms mostly the nerve kind . But you definitely have to get them explained to your satisfaction when you seee your doctor. I only looked briefly and did not see anything about multiple ones., I would think it could be a vascular problem., Just my nervous about anything brain speaking.
I would suggest you google them
Write down questions for the doctor
Make sure he answers them all.
Block the doorway if you have to
I have only had to use that technique once and it was for a student of mine that i was with.
When is your appointment?
Judy

Yeah been reading up about it. I just feel my doctors have been useless with the information. Got the doctors next week, will see what she thinks. If im not impressed I'll ask for a second opinion. My foot pain started around summer timel last year, can't believe how long it's been going on.

[jsewell]

Time does fly ! too bad we have to measure it associated with pain. Let us know what the doctor says and make sure you are armed with questions.
Judy

[housemd89]

Well long time since I last posted here. I finally got reffered to Ortho and he told me my MRI showed one of my discs was worn and protruding. He has booked me in for a epidural steriod injection. Has anyone had this? What was it like?

He said if that doesn't help i may have to consider a spinal fusion. I'm just happy to finally get some answers but also annoyed as this was the same MRI image which i was told that there was no problems except the benign hemangiomas.

[mmglobal]

I had 8 lumbar epidurals more than a decade ago as I was doing my best to avoid surgery. Some of them were VERY effective. A couple had no effect. One made me worse.

It's a pretty common early step as you are doing your due diligence in trying to avoid surgery. With spine... less surgery is better. If you are dealing with typical american insurance, I doubt you'll avoid the ESI's unless you are willing to jump straight to surgery... again... less surgery is better if possible.

Less EVERYTHING is better... including ESI's. Nothing is risk-free. Anytime they are poking needles and scalpels around your spine, there is a chance that something will go wrong. I don't see why some pain management doctors and surgeons will do a third ESI when there was no benefit from the first two.

Good luck!

Mark

PS... If you must have surgery, something less invasive than a fusion is preferable, presuming you are a good candidate.

[jsewell]

I have had many ESI's. I was really scared with the first one, but now that they are so routine for me , no big deal. I look forward to the afternoon relaxing. My doc uses general anesthesia as he gives up to 6 at a time and does not like to see any one in pain. Some docs don't .
when are you having yours?
Judy

[housemd89]

mmglobal - Thanks, I am in the UK so it's free for me. If i had the money or insurance i would have went private though. He told me the risks as well which kinda freaked me out such as paralysis and that the pain might get worse but it was rare. Surgery is the last thing i want and the ortho said they don't like doing it on people as young (i'm 23) as me but it's something i may have to consider if the injections don't help.
Edit - What other options are there to a spinal fusion?

jswell - I was told i'll be awake with just a local anathestic jag to the area, i hate needles as well but not too fussed because i'm not going to be looking at it. It's a 6 week maximum wait for it. I've been in pain for over a year and off work since October so 6 weeks seems like nothing lol.

[jsewell]

Six weeks is not too bad . Good Luck with the injections and let us know how you are doing after you have them
judy

[hamrs_62]

I am not to sure about epidurals, when I asked my pain dr. (of coarse I knew the answer) ok this will cure what is wrong with my neck, and he said no, so then I said, so it will just mask the problem so I can feel good enough to hurt my neck more, and he said it masks the pain, so I asked why do it if it is not a cure,
Pain is there to warn you that something is wrong, with out it our body would not know when out finger was being burnt,

just because I cant feel that pain does not mean I can go back to work, so for me I really have no use unless I chose this option for a life long option, and never work again, I guess I just do not get it,,,

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by hamrs_62

I am not to sure about epidurals, when I asked my pain dr. (of coarse I knew the answer) ok this will cure what is wrong with my neck, and he said no, so then I said, so it will just mask the problem so I can feel good enough to hurt my neck more, and he said it masks the pain, so I asked why do it if it is not a cure,
Pain is there to warn you that something is wrong, with out it our body would not know when out finger was being burnt,

just because I cant feel that pain does not mean I can go back to work, so for me I really have no use unless I chose this option for a life long option, and never work again, I guess I just do not get it,,,

That's a very good point, I never thought about that. I'm out of options though and really want to stop feeling pain.. like you said though it could end up meaning you could hurt yourself more and not realise.

[housemd89]

Just an update here. I am booked in for the 14th of Aug for my epidural injection but it may be put back as they've realised i have tachycardia and don't know the cause. They took an ECG and have now booked me in for an echo hopefully to be done by next week. My heart rate is staying around 121bpm at rest. Blood pressure and blood results were fine though.

[Maria]

With whatever is causing the tachycardia.

I just wanted to state (and I'm sure I have already) I had ESIs from 2001 to 2006. Somewhere I said 10 years worth which isn't correct as it was only 5 years however I had them at least 3x/year.

Doing this did masque pain thankfully and made me actually get out of bed and get walking and actually improve my physical status.

One has to remember while we are at rest due to our "bad" whatever the rest of the body is undergoing changes involved when not in use. These changes are usually make us weaker and less healthy.

For years when my back was bad I had to lie in bed for weeks and months to get over flare ups. I have not had to do that in the last 7 years at least not for weeks and months, maybe for a few days or a week at most.

The ESIs did help me actually as they bought time for my body to do it's own thing and head towards auto fusion and that helped my spine. Maybe the steroid material did contribute to my osteoporosis too but I have a family history of that with mother, father and even my brother having it and they had no ESIs so I think it's a familial thing vs. brought on the 'roids.

Sometimes covering up the pain can cover up some serious conditions that should be addressed in a more aggressive manner than just drugs but I think generally one brings changes to the doctor's attention such as increased pain and some changes with weakness or the various symptoms that would deem further diagnostic testing that would pick up changes that might necessitate surgery.

Often surgery just isn't ordered for the most common thing we take pain meds for which is pain. I had enough pain for way too long and was happy to be prescribed something to help cover it up and also help my body stabilize a bit and not head towards more surgery which may or may not help enough to get off pain meds of some sort completely.

The main message here is for people to make sure they are reporting changes they might be experiencing no matter how minute they may seem they may signify something important.

[jsewell]

I am sorry about the possible holdup and hopefully your heart will check out just fine. Just to put in my 2cents, i have adrenal insufficeincy, it does cause a high heart rate and rather low blood pressure.
judy

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by jsewell

I am sorry about the possible holdup and hopefully your heart will check out just fine. Just to put in my 2cents, i have adrenal insufficeincy, it does cause a high heart rate and rather low blood pressure.
judy

Thanks jsewell. I'm on the right track anyway and getting some answers

[housemd89]

Got my Esi last Wednesday. Didn't feel any difference until yesterday. The pain has got really bad in my lower back but my leg is still the same. Struggling to get up and bend. To go back in 6 weeks but may try and get seen sooner if the pain is like this.

[jsewell]

I am so sorry they caused you more pain. When i have had them i always have an apt in 2 weeks to see how the shots did. I am very fortunate in the fact that they sometimes did not work, but never caused an increase in pain. I hope there is something else they can do for you now.
Judy

[housemd89]

Been contacted by ortho and they want me back for an xray. Not sure if it's just lumbar or full spine. If it is just a lumbar xray, would it show anything that an MRI wouldn't?

[mmglobal]

xray and mri show different issues. They usually start with conservative therapy... xray... then MRI. A friend is going through this now. I believe it's cost containment. Its frustrating that they won't do an MRI. Even if it turns out to be nothing, you'll have a baseline and know what your spine looks like now.

Mark

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by mmglobal

xray and mri show different issues. They usually start with conservative therapy... xray... then MRI. A friend is going through this now. I believe it's cost containment. Its frustrating that they won't do an MRI. Even if it turns out to be nothing, you'll have a baseline and know what your spine looks like now.

Mark

Ok thanks. I already had an MRI about 7 months ago, was just curious why they want to xray now.

[housemd89]

The last few days my lower back has been the worst I've felt it. I can't straighten up or lean back at all. I took a muscle relaxant and it did nothing. I'm kinda worried that the disc has fully herniated. I've got ortho on Thursday anyway so I'll wait and see what they say. I'm hoping it's just a pulled muscle or something and goes away.

[mmglobal]

The severe pain when leaning back may be a disc problem, but it is also consistent with facet issues (and probably other issues as well.)

Sorry you seem to be getting worse.

Mark

[housemd89]

Don't know what's going to happen now. The person I seen at ortho today said there is nothing more they are going to do and told me to go to the gym. It wasn't the usual dr I was seeing. I questioned everything he said and he said and he just kept saying they won't do anymore scans and to try and deal with the pain. I was furious. . I don't understand how one person can give me an esi and say to consider surgery then this guy say they're not going to do anything. The way he was talking was basically saying my pain isn't too bad and to cope with it. I'm going to phone tomorrow and try and speak to my original dr and see what's going on. I think they may be trying to cut the amount of patients they have. You guys on here have been more informative than most the drs ive seen.

[jsewell]

I am so sorry you had such a bad appointment. Was this a doctor ? Let us know when you reach the original doc what he says . Again sorry.
Judy

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by jsewell

I am so sorry you had such a bad appointment. Was this a doctor ? Let us know when you reach the original doc what he says . Again sorry.
Judy

Thank you. Well I phoned up today and all they told me was his name was Mr Murray, so not sure what he is. I explained to my original doctors secretary what happened and even she said that it was strange, she has left a message for him to call me back.

[theBadCormorant]

Originally Posted by housemd89

Thank you. Well I phoned up today and all they told me was his name was Mr Murray, so not sure what he is. I explained to my original doctors secretary what happened and even she said that it was strange, she has left a message for him to call me back.

Are you British ? As curious as it may seem, very eminent surgeons in the UK drop the doctor bit and revert back to being known as Mr, Mrs or Miss - Apparently it is quite an honour for fellow doctors to bestow this status on another of their colleagues. So if you are in the UK and Mr Murray is a surgeon, then "Mr Murray" may be someone who is well worth listening to.

This apparent 'down grading' of status from 'Dr' to 'Mr' goes back many centuries to the days when Barbers carried out surgery; Doctors have to take the hippocratic oath "to do no harm" and as surgery in the 16th century often done great harm, doctors needed to stop being doctors before wielding the knife.

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by theBadCormorant

Are you British ? As curious as it may seem, very eminent surgeons in the UK drop the doctor bit and revert back to being known as Mr, Mrs or Miss - Apparently it is quite an honour for fellow doctors to bestow this status on another of their colleagues. So if you are in the UK and Mr Murray is a surgeon, then "Mr Murray" may be someone who is well worth listening to.

This apparent 'down grading' of status from 'Dr' to 'Mr' goes back many centuries to the days when Barbers carried out surgery; Doctors have to take the hippocratic oath "to do no harm" and as surgery in the 16th century often done great harm, doctors needed to stop being doctors before wielding the knife.

Yeah it's the UK i'm from. Tried numerous times to contact the original Ortho I seen but still not heard back from him. I have now booked a consultation with a chiropractor next week so hopefully he'll be more helpful than the useless NHS.

[theBadCormorant]

I can never make my mind up whether the NHS do very little for back problems because there is not much they can do, and doing nothing is the best course of action, or, do they do bugger all because they don't like spending any money. They certainly like spending our taxes on funding their fantastic salaries and pensions.

The hell I have been through this summer and the NHS's contribution was a few packets of cheap pills that cost less than a fiver! WOW

I'm sure your chiropractor will suggest all manner of benefits from their magic hands, then relieve you of a few hundred quid over the next few months.

I never know who to believe when money is changing hands.

Anyway, best of luck with the chiropractor

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by theBadCormorant

I can never make my mind up whether the NHS do very little for back problems because there is not much they can do, and doing nothing is the best course of action, or, do they do bugger all because they don't like spending any money. They certainly like spending our taxes on funding their fantastic salaries and pensions.

The hell I have been through this summer and the NHS's contribution was a few packets of cheap pills that cost less than a fiver! WOW

I'm sure your chiropractor will suggest all manner of benefits from their magic hands, then relieve you of a few hundred quid over the next few months.

I never know who to believe when money is changing hands.

Anyway, best of luck with the chiropractor

Totally agree, it doesn't help when you have different doctors telling you different things. They seem all too happy to just throw painkillers at you.

What's wrong with your back?

I actually got a deal on groupon for the chiropractor, a consultation and 3 treatments for £40. I thought it's worth a try, wouldn't have paid the original price as it's far too expensive.

[theBadCormorant]

Originally Posted by housemd89

Totally agree, it doesn't help when you have different doctors telling you different things. They seem all too happy to just throw painkillers at you.

What's wrong with your back?

Nothing that major in comparison to some on here. Long story so I will try and condense it down to a brief outline.

Early 40s, was first signs of problems, really minor stuff, bit stiff from time to time etc.

46, developed problem with hip that was causing problems with my hillwalking/climbing. Seen loads of DRs/physios, every diagnosis was different.

47, After a sneezing fit developed massive hip pain, never had pain like it, so bad I got the doctor to do a home visit, he phoned ambulance, xrays at hospital showed nothing, had to wait a few days for an MRI that showed slipped disc at L4-L5 squashing the L4 nerve. Things continued to get worse for a couple of weeks, lots of pain, lots of numbness but it was the motor loss and atrophy that prompted surgery. Went in for surgery, pre op examination surgeon noted murmur in patella reflex that had been absent a week earlier. Decided not to operate on the grounds that I may self heal, and self healing would be a millions times better than anything surgery could do.
Another 3 months before pain free, but as long as 2 years to loose numbness and regain a good level of fitness.
Lots of cycling, lots of pilates.
Never got back to my hill walking but could easily cycle 50 - 100 mile in a day.

52 (15 months ago) started to be bothered with buttock pain in other leg, almost certainly due to S1 nerve contact by bulging disc at the lumber sacral (LS) junction (this had showed up on MRI 5 years ago but was not causing any problems then) Another MRI was done and showed no change in the bulging disc at LS but improvements in the disc at L4 L5 So plenty of reasons why left leg was better, but no explanation as to worsening situation with right leg

Next 12 months were awful, problems sitting and walking, lots of mild pain, even cycling more than 5 miles was becoming a major day out. In a straight leg test could not lift right leg more than 5 degrees.

June this year, woke up one morning with massive pain, numb heel and little toe, awful calf pain. Dr says it's a classic LS herniation. 6 weeks of utter hell, but now pain free for the first time in 15 months, numbness mostly gone, still very scared and spend a good part of the day lying down (hence my internet activity) I have started up with my pilates and doing a fair bit of cycling (done a 40 miler last week) In a straight leg test can achieve > 45° and limited by hamstring rather than nerve pain.

[housemd89]

Sounds terrible comorant. Good you are pain free now though and hopefully it stays that way.
Seen the chiropractor today for my consultation and to go back in tomorrow for him to explain his findings. What he did tell me was I have a twisted pelvis which has made my shoulder misaligned and I have one leg shorter than the other.

[theBadCormorant]

This is usually a symptom and not a cause - A problem in or around the spine causes muscles to go into spasm, these muscles shorten and pull the pelvis out of alignment which in turn makes one leg appear a little shorter than the other.

Of course, whilst you have this misalignment the spine is compelled to work and move in an unusual way that can either exasperate your original problem or cause new problems.

The term "Vicious Circle" comes to mind.

I guess the Chiropracticer will straighten you up, and whilst you are in better alignment the body will have more chance to heal, or at least that is the theory.

Before you go you could lie face down on the bed with your feet just protruding over the edge, get your wife to photograph or measure any disparity in your heals (could be half an inch); Repeat after your visit and if there is a notable change you could repeat daily to see how long you stay in better alignment. I used to do this before and after a deep muscle massage, but I would pop back out of alignment in under 12 hours.

EDIT:
One last comment - I also found an hours slow ride on the bike (as in cycling) was as likely to put me into the correct alignment as a deep massage or a bone clicker.

[housemd89]

Originally Posted by theBadCormorant

This is usually a symptom and not a cause
EDIT:
One last comment - I also found an hours slow ride on the bike (as in cycling) was as likely to put me into the correct alignment as a deep massage or a bone clicker.

Thanks for the tip, will be sure to do that. Had my first adjustment today and don't really feel any different.. not expecting it to work straight away right enough.

[housemd89]

Hi, i was wondering if anyone here could have a look at my mri? I got a private scan done, the man gave me the disc and it has about 45 images on it. The program is syngo fast view. Not sure the best way to do it, maybe just upload a few of the most clear images on here?

[housemd89]

mmglobal was nice enough to say he'll look at my MRI, going to send him the disc, thanks again.

I'll upload a few pics just now (the most clear ones i seen)

[housemd89]

Can anyone give me an opinion on the scan?