DiscoGel... No it's not a dance!

[ADR seeker]

GELSCOM - Administration of DiscoGel

As near as I can tell this is a gelled alcohol that is injected into a herniated or otherwise damaged disk. Six weeks after the injection the herniation resolves.

I don't know if it is available in the US but my guess is if it works and is inexpensive, safe and effective you probably have to go outside the US to get it.

Fixmybackdisc.com - Discogel Injection - YouTube
Here is a video of the procedure. Some bleeding. Patient is awake.

Let's see what we can find out.

[jsewell]

I did read some of the info, it sounds wonderful, still skeptical though.
judy

[mmglobal]

From their website... The 96% pure ethyl alcohol produces necrosis of disc tissue. Necrotic tissue is dead.

This reminds me of chymopapaine... an enzyme that is injected into the disc herniation to dissolve it. It worked well and is still used in many countries. The problem with chymopapaine is that the enzyme didn't know when to stop 'digesting' tissue. When less bright doctors though... ."wow, if 500 units is good... 4000 units must be better", serious damage was done. There were also fatal allergic reactions. Now they test for allergies before administering it. Properly applied, it can be like magic.

It seems that the discogel theory is similar. However, it is simply killing disc nucleus tissue so that it will be resorbed, shrinking the herniation. this seems promising in certain applications, however, it does nothing to address the degenerative changes in the disc. Disc volume is further reduced. Mechanical problems are not addressed.

I believe this will work in cases where simply shrinking the herniation will decompress a nerve, but most of the cases I've been involved in will be too far down the degenerative cascade for this to be a reasonable solution.

I wonder about the potential damage when the injectant goes where it is not intended. Damage to the annulus? Save in the spinal canal? Safe around the spinal cord?

Thanks for posting... this does sound promising for some of us. I hope that my concerns prove to be unfounded!

Mark

[cherylstewart67]

Originally Posted by mmglobal

From their website... The 96% pure ethyl alcohol produces necrosis of disc tissue. Necrotic tissue is dead.

This reminds me of chymopapaine... an enzyme that is injected into the disc herniation to dissolve it. It worked well and is still used in many countries. The problem with chymopapaine is that the enzyme didn't know when to stop 'digesting' tissue. When less bright doctors though... ."wow, if 500 units is good... 4000 units must be better", serious damage was done. There were also fatal allergic reactions. Now they test for allergies before administering it. Properly applied, it can be like magic.

It seems that the discogel theory is similar. However, it is simply killing disc nucleus tissue so that it will be resorbed, shrinking the herniation. this seems promising in certain applications, however, it does nothing to address the degenerative changes in the disc. Disc volume is further reduced. Mechanical problems are not addressed.

I believe this will work in cases where simply shrinking the herniation will decompress a nerve, but most of the cases I've been involved in will be too far down the degenerative cascade for this to be a reasonable solution.

I wonder about the potential damage when the injectant goes where it is not intended. Damage to the annulus? Save in the spinal canal? Safe around the spinal cord?

Thanks for posting... this does sound promising for some of us. I hope that my concerns prove to be unfounded!

Mark

this is a good question.

[jsewell]

All good points Mark

Judy

[cherylstewart67]

kind of funny, not haha funny,, that they put a word that also means a dance from the 70's

[ADR seeker]

The fact that chemo papain is was given to patients without testing for allergies is typical of doctors. Allergy has been testing has been around for close to 100 years. Doctors also use contrast dyes without knowing if patients are allergic. It is probably more lucrative to make money treating 2 or 3 percent patients for the dangerous reactions than testing them.

Alcohol is not much of an allergen and often it requires more than one injection so it probably dissolves tissue very slowly and then stops.

Here's a video about discogel
DiscoGel and Water - YouTube

Here is a patient getting an injection with English titles
C5 C6 English - YouTube

Fixmybackdisc.com - Discogel Injection - YouTube

[mmglobal]

I just received my first discogel horror story. Hopefully, I can get the sender to post it in the patient community instead of in a private email.

Being on the 'bleeding edge' of technology is not always what we hope for.

Mark

[Maria]

Read this. Just like what you asked about discogel I wondered if perhaps more than the intended area could be killed off and/or damaged.

Waiting to read...

[Stingerlee]

Originally Posted by mmglobal

I just received my first discogel horror story. Hopefully, I can get the sender to post it in the patient community instead of in a private email.

Being on the 'bleeding edge' of technology is not always what we hope for.

Mark

I would be very interested in hearing about this mark. Are you sure you are not talking about the BMPs like Infuse that are killing patients left and right.

The amount of alcohol is so tiny that even if it missed the disk and went through the dura nothing of any consequence would happen.

I see that you have some images of some pedicle screws and the Mobi-C.

Any replacement disk that is not motion constraining and shock absorbing is a prescription of failure and here here is why. If it is not motion constrained like a real disk the only thing that will stop it in a 6 axis of motion are the facet joints. The other problem is that the that artificial joint will move before the real joint moves.

There are 4 ADRs made in the US. one is the M6, the other is NeoDisk, Axio Med makes the Freedom disk and and Paradigm Spine makes the DCI disk. Anyone of these devices are light years ahead of fusions and the ball and socket metal shedding one available to US patients.

Discogel is an excellent option for the treatment of disk hernias as are ozone discolysis and the Stryker decompressor.

Mark, if you have any clinical trial data on Discogel that shows any adverse reactions please post them.

For those of you who would like to know why Americans don't have the high quality products that the Europeans and Asians have visit the Spine Blogger spineblogger.blogspot.com This guy is an industry insider who is trying to clean up a very dirty industry.

Anyway Mark, I don't think it is responsible for you to post hearsay and ban someone who presents the facts. What role to you play in the industry?