Question lumbar Spines ?

Gil Denis · #1 (**permalink**) 03-05-2011, 03:38 PM

Hi All

This is for lumbar patients, I have a very sore lumbar spine,most days i manage very well.Stiff in the A.M. as the day moves on so do I. Most task are o.k. walking,some woodworking,some easy skiing, P.T. three times a week with stretching and exercises etc.

Here is the question I get crooked, out of sorts, when I look into a mirror it looks like a leaning tree? It is very painful. It gets better with in a few days, but recently it has become more severe and takes longer to get back to my old self. Has anyone ever had these symptoms and what is the cause?

I thing this is major spinal instability and surgery is kicking me in the **s to get it now

This is a workers comp case and will only cover some, other insurance will not cover anything because of W.C.

I have been searching for a surgeon here in the states from coast to coast and being a possible four level spinie no one has a procedure for lasting results, I can go out of country, but no money due to real estate, recession, cannot work etc,

I think it would be nice if we had a foundation to help finance, work with spine patients is seeking the correct procedure and surgeon.Like cancer foundations etc

All For Now

Thanks for listening

Gil

jsewell · #2 (**permalink**) 03-05-2011, 05:04 PM

First i love your profile picture, it makes me smile every time i see it. I should put one of me in here with this neck brace that also has a thoracic component as i feel i may never get it off. As you can see i am mostly fused except for a few upper cervical (that is good) and L3-5. I should say fusing.
I have been having lumbar pain that forces me to rest, i can do some things like take a long walk but usually rely on pain meds. I just has some ESI but feel i must be in a position to be looking at something further. It sucks.

Anyway just a little moaning. I have a wonderful spine surgeon here in so. california that i love. I don't know if you would get the same info as from other doctors you have seen and i understand the financial crunch. I have not worked in almost 3 years now.
I agree with the money foundation for us poor spineys although with my surgeon , who i am extremely comfortable with , the cost to me is minimal in his end. When he thought something was beyond him , he sent me to DrRegan. so he is a great guy.(my doc is the great guy i had a huge lung complication with Regan , which he is not helping with at all) Facing surgery for that soon .
Just wanted to commiserate, sorry i have no good answers as to what is happening with you, i don't know myself except pain!!!!! Again!!!!!

dshobbies · #3 (**permalink**) 03-05-2011, 06:25 PM

Gil,

Please take this as from someone who has absolutely no medical expertise, just some personal experience.

Your lumbar spine is stiff in the mornings and loosens up as the day progresses. You look in the mirror and you're not standing straight. This sounds like muscle spasms, what my doctor calls 'protective mode'. As your actual spine worsens, so do the spasms or tightness.

Muscle relaxers can help as does the stretching and pt but the only way to fix this is to fix your back, which you're trying to do. Bureaucracy stands between you and that fix for which I have a few expletives but not much more. Yes, I agree, a foundation would be beyond great but...- ISpine was intended to be such an endowment but alas, Mark has a little too much on his plate.

Good luck and if you discover exactly what this is, keep us in the loop.

Dale

Maria · #4 (**permalink**) 03-05-2011, 07:03 PM

Scoliosis of the lumbar spine? Is one leg shorter than the other (is in most people)? Are you having muscle spasms?

In the a.m. when I first get up I'm bent over usually for a bit. Then I straighten out as I "warm" up. Sometimes I sort of lean to one side if one side is bothering me and in spasms however I do have lumbar scoliosis and I do have one leg shorter than the other. One hip is sort of rotated forward a bit.

I have had PT and exercises to do to help me out with this in the past though I usually just work thru it and a good hot shower in the a.m. helps and getting out and walking a bit.

No doubt my posture, stance. alignment has changed over the years esp. since my 2 right knee surgeries and 2 lumbar spine surgeries. Still all in all I feel pretty good and sort of just deal with the tightness and spasms best I'm able.. some days I'm markedly slower and less able to do things and I try to listen to my body and rest as needed and function well as much as I'm able.

Back in '06 I think I had films done to see if I had lumbar instability and I didn't so I'm guessing I don't now. See your doctor re updated films if you think that's necessary or your symtoms warrent it.

Gil Denis · #5 (**permalink**) 03-07-2011, 01:45 AM

Hi

Thanks for the replies.

I think it is called Oh S&^# or Osteoarthritis in the lumbar spine.

I think it is coming from my L5-S1 facet joints

So now what

Life is great

Gil

Maria · #6 (**permalink**) 03-07-2011, 07:08 PM

Hey Gil,
It's been awhile now though I cannot recall if you were recommended to have a fusion or there's that possibility as you mentioned instability so wondered if you had flexion/extension films that showed that?

Not sure what could be bothering you though you have enough spine history that it could be "something." I see you rebulged the same level you had surgery on previously (as did I at both levels of discectomy I had).

Most of the time my back is pretty good with my medication. Some flare ups. Some predictable, some out of the blue. I usually ride them out now vs. the panic it used to send me into 20 or 10 years ago. Still I never think that something "new" couldn't pop up esp. as I age (deteriorate spinally?)!

Hope you're feeling better. Have you tried a Toradol injection 60mg IM for spasms? I can't believe how helpful that is for me/my flare ups. Then there's whatever else works given each of our clinical findings. Good luck!

jsewell · #7 (**permalink**) 03-08-2011, 04:15 AM

I have a question about re herniation. If you have a discectomy , don't they remove the whole disc?

newhere · #8 (**permalink**) 03-08-2011, 11:18 AM

No,discectomy is when they remove only portion that presses the nerve root.
The realy term of discetomy means cuting the annulus (cuting the disc). So when they move this portion,there is stil "hole". So re-herniation means when inner portion of the disc again cames out of that hole.

Maria · #9 (**permalink**) 03-08-2011, 04:24 PM

Not in my case either. Removed part that was bulging. In percutaneous discectomy (2nd surgery) it was thought too much was removed.

jsewell · #10 (**permalink**) 03-08-2011, 07:04 PM

Thanks guys. How about i know in my neck there were peek cages put in also in my T7-8 thoracic spine. Does that mean the whole disc is gone? I know DrR only removed half of my disc at T11-12 and pput in a piece of bone morphenogenic protein as the OR report states that, i just was sure hoping the really painful one was done with and all removed.

dshobbies · #11 (**permalink**) 03-08-2011, 07:07 PM

Judy,

Reherniation after a discectomy is pretty common. Percentages of success aren't great, I believe it's 80% for first surgery, 50% -second, then going down to only 5% thereafter.

My first surgery was good for 8 years, my second, 6 months. My doctor never told me any of this.

Dale

jsewell · #12 (**permalink**) 03-08-2011, 07:11 PM

Thanks Dale, I never realized it could happen . that sucks!!! I thought mine that were removed where no longer a threat to my existence!!!
judy

Maria · #13 (**permalink**) 03-08-2011, 08:06 PM

re fusion/ADR I don't remember if all disc is removed. There was a time when I was interested and probably if I had to have one of these surgeries I'd be interested again!

What boggles my mind is when I read on a spine forum that a surgeon recommends multi multi level discectomies at one time like all lumbar discs(and someone actually follows thru w/that). That person ended up w/failed surgery and had to have fusion of all levels that had previously had discetomies.

Both of my levels rebulged although L5S1 actually rebulged after L4 rebulged and I had surgery on L5S1 first. Results at that level were good for over a year and life was so nice for that period of time.. then L4 went and things were bad and after the L4 percuteneous discectomy went from bad to much worse (than I could have imagined I could ever feel).

My first discectomy was a big open one and I healed well from it with a steady progression. The 2nd discectomy was a big failure w/rapidly ensuing problems.

Oh well, live and learn. I've reached a level of comfort/functioning/ability that I had so long ago thought I'd never achieve I'm fairly satisfied w/it "for now."

Felt like I spent a few hundred years in hell when my back was at it's worse post failed surgery!

jsewell · #14 (**permalink**) 03-09-2011, 12:18 AM

I've had such a whirlwind of surgery in the last 14 months, 4 of them back and one to untrap my lung (which got trapped from the VAT's mess) i don't know what failed or what. Just with me things happened so fast with my back/neck i could barely keep it all straight, especially after i picked up the OR reports yesterday. My spine surgeon seemed to do every procedure possible once he got to the cervical again and upper thoracic. And the big breaking my neck to put it back where it belonged.

Things in that whole area are pretty darn good now, of course the lumbar spine is acting quite badly now.
always something.
judy