Advice on annular tear and mri results

[Magrego]

I noticed you said 'My back and neck now trade off re painful flare ups and episodes. I don't think flare ups mean one is getting better actually and for me I've generally come to believe it is disc material leaking out on a nerve creating nerve pain and muscle spasms or could be the other way 'round. '

I actually believe this true as I read this before. I was much better off before physio. Will this leaking stop as i have never experienced this pain before.

and what do you mean by 'it could be the other way around? also My tear must not have leaked previously and now it has. anyway I will have a second opinion tomorrow off a really trustworthy gp who attends seminars etc. I will fill you in on what he says if I understand

[Magrego]

yeh my girlfriend is understanding and we even share a single bed with my back lol I squash her against the wall now so she is pretty understanding she has also paid for my medical amazing considering I told her she does not have to stay with me anymore cause I don't want to hold her back in life. she also puts up with my complaining which I havn't really done before this experience so I am great full. I could write a whole essay on how good my girlfriend is but you get the point.

I was also wondering about this workstation. was she using a computer screen on the wall? I was thinking of doing this because I miss my architecture . I can sketch by hand but I love to 3d model realistic images also. I was actually learning the program they use to make Iron man 2 called modo. I might have a look around for a standing work station to keep me sane instead of lying in this bed I find standing feels even better than lying down because the pain gets worse when lying down too. anyway I will tell you what the doc recommended. I am sure he will send me to another specialist. He cares a lot about his patients I heard from my friend. This doctor doesn't usually see any new patients because he is so busy, so i am lucky my friend spoke to him for me I will ask about those shots because the painkillers arnt working anymore

I feel I have learnt a lot from this forum. Thanks again and all the best to find relief from your own injuries.

[Maria]

There are many modified type of stations on the market tho I just put my monitor up on a box and keyboard on the desk until the company I worked for paid for a standing station. As I said I worked that way for the last 5 years I was employed.

I avoided sitting for years because after my 2nd back surgery which failed that position was the most uncomfortable and seemed to bring about acute flare ups. And actually the pain was just chronically bad and sitting hurt like hell.

Lately tho since about 2005/6 I've done better and supposedly I've autofused at L5S1. Another thing that helped me in the interim is when I started lumbar epidural steroid injections back in 2001. I could sit after I'd get one of those tho the duration is only for about an hour.

Re leaking disc material causing muscle spasms.. or for whatever reason like too much sitting or bad spinal positioning creating muscle spasms and then maybe that tweaking the disc by all the spasming tho I usually think it tends to be the other way 'round. Not sure which is first sometimes tho...

Be glad you have an understanding gf as that is quite nice. She must really love you so don't tell her to go away! Altho I know what you mean about not wanting to hold her back ... it's the kind of stuff that runs thru our heads when we're all messed up and feel so limited and self worth is diminished.

Dine in the bar part of a restaurant where the seats are higher and one can stand while still being at a table or counter! There are solutions for near everything as long as you can get yourself out of the house!

Ask me how I manage to fly...

[dshobbies]

Magrego,

Forgive me if you think I'm overstepping here or reading wrong between the lines. As I see it, you're living with disabling pain but you seem reluctant to 'find your cure' if there is such a thing.

You're very young and living this way is a waste of your time and life. Getting another opinion from a gp is not the same thing as a specialist who knows spines and can definitively tell you what is going on and give you a plan to fix it (unless this step is necessary for insurance reasons).

Chiropractic will more than likely make you much worse unless he's a DDD or herniated disc specialist but even then, I'd be very weary.

I'm not a doctor and have absolutely no medical expertise but... the tingling and or numbness you feel is/are probably nerves protesting something touching your spinal cord, regardless of the cause. This should be given priority. Nerve damage is unpredictible and can become permanant. I'm also not suggesting surgery is your only option but if necessary, most of us have one shot to get it right so choosing your doctor carefully is the highest priority.

To show you what can go wrong, my chiro put me into an emergency surgery situation. My highly respected neuro surgeon offered no options in my surgery and only post surgery did he tell me the downfalls... and never explained the risks involved with my second surgery.

Magrego, I realize my words are scary and that's not my intent but you do need to take charge of your care. You need to educate yourself in exactly what's going on both in your lumbar and cervical spines and find out the possible effective treatments for both. You either need to find the absolute best doctors in your area or like many of us, travel to those who are tried and true.

Mark basically told me the same things but over the course of several phone conversations instead of bluntly on a forum page. Please feel free to call Mark - GPN Artificial Disc Replacement ADR but please take control by learning as much as you can. Suffering in this much pain and this disabled is not the way to live, not if you can do something about it. Whether you want the postion or not, you are your own best advocate.

Again, my apologies if I said more than I should have.

Dale

[Maria]

I definately agree w/Dale re checking out your options. I had a very good GP that referred me to a Neurosurgeon when I felt like I could no longer function as I was altho I must admit I would have used an Orthopedic surgeon perhaps if I had known a bit more about options at the time.

I also agree re the chiro tho I didn't put it like Dale that was more or less what I meant by I wouldn't have utilized one re my spine. Not to say there are great chiros out there tho it's best to know if you have something that would be made worse by chiropractic treatment vs. better.

Since you stated you have an annular tear I thought you had already seen a specialist who referred you to the physiotherapy to see how that worked for you. Even so if you've seen one specialist I generally recommend seeing a few esp. if surgery is being recommended tho even if not and you might want to know what other options you might have in terms of types of surgery to hopefully resolve your problem.

Good luck with all that. You are young and while you may be able to live as you are if it were me and my limitations interfered with my working I'd be wondering about surgical options (as I was and did). Ditto on contacting Mark as he has helped many of us here me included!

I don't think Dale was too blunt. Sounded helpful to me in a direct way.

[Magrego]

Well i did see a orthopedic surgeon who overlooked my lower back where all the pain is now. I cannot get in to see anyone unless I get referral from specialists which I am trying with this new gp. I am not covered by any medical which means I pay over 100 dollars to see specialist not to mention the $80 I pay 3 times a week for physio. I am borrowing money to see the new gp today. I get under $200 dollars a week from disability so
i can hardly afford to buy toothpaste. If I go public health system I will not get good doctors so i need to pay each time. For me at the moment I can hardly drive to see anyone so my friend is driving me today so I can see his doctor so he can send me to a specialist he trusts. I dunno but at the moment I have paid more than I can afford and is probably the main issue cause public health system you wait a long time and I heard their not too great. so each time i want to see new specialist I pay to see a doctor first then pay initial consultations etc. It seems like a big joke lol. To see my first specialist I waited 3 weeks. anyway I am going to see this doctor now and see who he refers me too. We do get some of the money back from medicare but not from physio that the orthopedic surgeon suggested

thanks for the advice

[Magrego]

. Anyway cut a long story short the pain was getting worse from physio so he advised me to stop. He found my hamstrings and hip flexor is very tight and painful also contributing to my problems as I had knee rec onstruction and hammy tears previously in my life. so he has given me some exercises and stretching. He also gave me prescription for the pain but he thinks most of it is muscular with some spinal issues that I can live with. He said I am lucky to be alive considering my background. Anyway I will tell you if he was right soon enough and also he taped my back for better posture which feels great. I guess I was better off without any physio as he thinks they tend to milk you. anyway we will soon see in 3 weeks time. I think the pain is from manipulation of my spine to be honest but it was excessive pain so maybe was from the annular tear being activated. he said I have a very long neck too lol

anyways I will keep you posted

[Magrego]

I want people who read this too know if you get worse from physio please get a second opinion. I was being tricked and manipulated to give more pain aggravating my nerves or had no clue what they are doing. I am very disappointed in the fact so called professionals will take advantage of their patients to have their injuries ongoing. also the surgeon who overlooked everything was probably his drinking buddy down the pub. good luck and thank you to those who care. The major nerve pain is due to the physio and I know it because ever since I attended his practice I became 80 % worse. He overlooked simple stretching techniques saying it was my discs. amateur physio or pro con artist you decide. but the doctor who solved my problems in 45 minutes was a fantastic gp. I feel really stupid now, although I was in a lot of pain stressing for a very good reason.

kind regards magrego

[Maria]

Generally here in the states the conservative route for an acute back prob is initally rest w/ice and or heat, some nonsteroidal antiinflammatory meds, and some PT if still feeling badly tho getting better. The initial PT eval is an assessment of the individual and their history then some passive stretching (done to the patient usually or assisted by the PT) and heat packs, ultrasound which will advance over the next few weeks to some specific exercises tho still usually starts out with the stretching and ends with a heat pack/rest.

If PT fails or one feels worse during PT it's considered "failed" and is stopped. So it's very common here to have PT as part of the initial treatment for something like an annular tear as long as the degree isn't so bad that one is in severe pain horrific pain going into the initial appt.

It's very common for disc bulges to be exaccerbated by PT. Sometimes it's overzealous and sometimes not~ just seems like one wrong move tho is probably that whatever is going on has just reached a level of "one more thing" to set it off.

I'm glad you got your problem addressed tho be careful as your annular tear can still lead to incredibly painful episodes or periods or it could just be "there" and not really bother you that much. That's sort of what my L3 annular tear did. However I suspect that my L4 and L5S1 disc had tears that progressed on further to bulges that were terribly problematic.

Over the years I just learned myself what exaccerbates my probs and what doesn't, what level of exercise and type I can do and what I can't. I make sure that PT's are very careful with my back tho even when trying to work on other areas like helping my right knee recover from 2 surgeries my low back probs were greatly exaccerbated. Just happened.

Good luck. If you've not checked out that chirogeek webpage please do so as that's got so much good information there re annular tears, disc bulges and other back probs it really gives one a good idea of what is going on.

Hope you continue to recover and feel much better! Keep us posted!

[Magrego]

I just did a little research on what the GP has pin pointed in 5 minutes of checking my body. I am sure the physio was just milking me because this was defiantly my issue for my lower back pain as I feel so tight in my hamstrings and my hip flexorIf you push on my abdominals I am so sore. I think the physio should have noticed this. Anyway here is a little reading I found if your interested low back pain hip flexor

another article Relief for an aching back: ease lower back pain right now, and prevent it in the future, with these simple pilates-inspired solutions - Natural Health Articles | Find Articles at CBS MoneyWatch.com

[Maria]

M,
the links were a good read, thanks. All my Physical Therapists have done thorough assessments prior to treatment and had the information of my MRI's and other diagnostic tests. I guess because I was referred by the Orthopedic Surgeon/specialist and insurance paid there was no "milking" done tho I'm sure it does go on in some places/practices/somewhere.

Anyway it's good to hear you're feeling better and I do hope that continues! Keep us posted

[Magrego]

ok...........................3 months of seeing numerous doctors even a chiro who said my hip was twisted. I then was hinted by another doctor my iliospoas was sore. so I stretched and it got a little better.

sciatica came on for 2 days then i stoped stretching and fell victim to intense stabbing pain aching especially in mornings...ect.

depression started and anxiety is taking over while my fear of never knowing what is really wrong. I went to pain management they were saying it was in my head and i needed to take anti depressents. I got upset because i know my pain is being caused by something.

5 months of stabbing and pulling pain. that would go away when I was more active, although I cannot sit at all or work. my hip clicks and i have tight and very sore below and above my waiste all over. what could it be a mystery?

no its muscles that are pulling and twisting things everywhere. I have diareha and constempation. Its beyond a joke as my central nervous system is goin nuts. i got second opinion from a spine speacialist who said i could lift weights and im a stressor. yet ive been told by a chiro I have a twisted hip.

so I didnt stop searching in a anxious and determined manner kept searching until I found some trigapoint charts

triggapoint charts - Google Search

groin chart - Trigger Point Technologies Australia


I booked into see a great massage therapist. after 1 day i felt my legs become free. day 2 massage today ( i still have pain but they found a massive rock hard ball in my groin. i have many other knots and had deep tissue work that is amazing.

I am all spaced out because of the toxins releasing. I think my knots are from having too many protien powder shakes with injuries and working out.

myafascial pain syndrome I guess? I will update the massage therapy results if anyone is interested to learn.

Myofascial Pain Syndrome | Chronic Muscle Pain - WebMD