Caring for our discs

[Crystal33]

I suffer 4 levels of DDD, chemical pain from T spine disc tear leakage, and mechanical pain from associated sequestered fragment.
For several months I have been mainly resting hoping my body will improve things. There seems to be many views on what conservative care should consist of.

Conservative care to avoid an operation seems similar to post op though longer time frame, unless the op is a failure.
The following is the approach I have settled on but would appreciate views/criticism of others.

MECHANICAL/PHYSICAL:
Avoid any level of sitting, bending, lifting, or twisting that causes pain.
Lying down is preferable to sitting as it takes pressure off discs.
Gentle walk as able without pain and with good posture, straight back and shoulders.
Hydro therapy - reduced load on discs.
Other physical therapy on a no pain basis.

CHEMICAL:
Anti inflammatory as needed. Try to keep level of activity below that which causes pain, and requires pain medication, as this will cause healing setback and prolong condition.

NUTRITIONAL: Healthy diet. Drink alot of water. Glucose/sugar with each meal. Glucosamine supplement. Water seems important to nucleus. Discs contain significant amount sugars, glucosamine.
Possibly take half aspirin a day to thin blood which could help to get more nutrition into disc (a theory only). Decreased disc nutrition is a cause of disc degeneration.

BEHAVIOURAL: Sleep after lunch each day. Discs expel fluid and waste during day under compression and slowly take in fluid and nutrition overnight when they are not compressed. Having a sleep period after lunch possibly may enable the discs to take in nutrition twice a day instead of once a day. Has there been any research into this? I think i read somewhere that Dr Bertagnoli, or other eminent person, said primitive man used to live differently than us and our way of life sitting/standing most of day contributes to disc degeneration.

PSYCHOLOGICAL: Unlike most other injuries, realize and accept that it may take a few years for body to deal with problem. Therefore along the way don't raise activity level above level of healing to the point of pain as this will cause flareup and healing setback.
I read Doug's diary on chirogeek website. His operation was a failure and ultimately his own body improved his condition over several years. Along the way he suffered numerous setbacks that mostly seem to have been caused when he raised his physical activity level above the level of healing achieved by his body at the particular point in time.

[New Disc-Man]

I agree with most of what you say.

I take an increased amount of glucosamine as well as multi vitamins, calcium with vitamin D (to help body absorb the calcium), fish oil (instead of aspirin, fish oil is a blood thinner too)

Find somewhere local to do Clinical Pilates. It must be on the Refformer Machine not on the floor or mats. Clinical Pilates is recommended here before and after spinal surgery. I have met many people doing it when I was there post op who swear it has kept them off the operating table and strengthened their backs and core and body to the point they no longer need the surgery for pain provided they keep up the clinical pilates. They all see my surgeon and he is supportive of the program.

Dont go into any surgery for the relief of pain. It will most likely not give you the level of relief you want for you to call the op a success. It may even give more pain. Surgery should only be used to fix spinal defects. Most surgeons wont tell you that the surgerywill reduse your pain by x%. They normally say they think you will be x% better, structurally fixed etc. I bet no surgeon gives a guarantee on pain relief from surgery.

Be prepared for depression which comes from the time it takes to get what seems is nowhere sometimes. You can feel pretty low at times, desperate even.

And lastly, keep fit. The body will go downhill very fast if yo plan to lay around all day. It may give your disc time to heal by not agravating it, but it will be stuffed again when you try then rid your excess weight you will gain, and also you will need a lengthy time to recover from the several years of doing nothing. Get support from a trained clinical pilates person and they can help you maintain your 'rest' as well as keep you strong and fit without overstressing your spine etc.

[Gil Denis]

Hi New Disc- Man

I agree with pilates I have been involved with pilates for five years now I waiting to heal from micro disc surgery to began on the reformer only.

Thanks

Gil

[dshobbies]

By all means, it's best to try all conservative treatment before embarking on a surgical answer - however, if the disc itself to too badly compromised or already dehydrated, pt and/or waiting may not help.

I don't want to disillusion you or dissuade you from trying anything you think worthwhile, but conservative treatment doesn't always work. However, if it does, it will definitely be worth the time, effort and energy in the long run.

Good luck to all, Dale

[Crystal33]

Thankyou for replies. Pilates is something i will look into. Having a torn disc has made me apprehensive about type of physical therapy i try as i hope the tear will seal up. It's a double edged sword.
Not smoking and being a little underweight would be other things i would add.
Certainly if disc is badly degenerated nothing may help except surgery, unless maybe stem cells work in the future.
Ongoing good conservative care regime might hopefully prevent or delay degeneration of more discs in the future. There seems to be little literature on the subject.

These are cruel injuries that often do not show themselves until end stage. I think the govt. should provide some public education to young people espec about caring for their spines and discs for life.

[Crystal33]

If this works, it should fast tracked.

Disc regrowth: Mesoblast - the adult stem cell company. Regeneration of adult stem cells for regrowth of bone and cartilage.

[Crystal33]

This is a doctors advice about healing a disc tear in as little as 5 weeks. I wish there were documented trials to prove it.

".....I'm going to be honest though, the annular tear is extremely difficult to treat. It will heal over with time, about a year. You can take glucosamine sulfate 3x in the A.M. and 3X in the P.M. 6/day at 500mg with 30% pulsed ultrasound overlaid with interferential therapy and ice. This will cut the healing time to 5-8 weeks. Only a D.C. can do this, call around for ones that do spinal decompression or F/D. Make sure they also have therapeutic modalities such as ultrasound and E-stim.
Stay away from exercise and epidural injections since this will only prolong your condition...
..............................
Dr. Timothy Durnin
drs.chiroweb.com ."

[Crystal33]

Always keeping good posture is something else that will reduce undue stress on our discs and be part of everyday life.

And possibly anti inflammatory foods could help lessen pain causing inflammation.
Tumeric is said to be as effective as some medications.
http://theconsciouslife.com/top-10-a...tory-foods.htm

[JKDE302]

I wish I knew this stuff 5-10 years ago...

[Crystal33]

From this study, by Phd researchers, red wine or dark grape juice would seem to help prevent disc degeneration.

"Conclusion. Resveratrol is a potent anabolic mediator of bovine IVD cartilage homeostasis, revealing its potential as a unique biologic treatment to slow the progression of IVD degeneration. These data suggests RSV may have considerable promise in the treatment of disc degeneration."

The Action of Resveratrol, a Phytoestrogen Found in Grapes,... : Spine

[Crystal33]

Another recent study supporting anti oxidant role in combating disc degen.
CiteULike: Peroxynitrite induces gene expression in intervertebral disc cells.

[dshobbies]

Don't know if this applies but researchers have found most health benefits in red wine are also found in dark chocolate. Though to each his own, in this house, chocolate wins. (ok, red wine has its moments too!)

CHOCOHOLICS UNITE

[Crystal33]

Grow your own discs.

Researchers grow new spine discs for bad backs

[Crystal33]

I have been doing very limited PT with some gentle mckenzie based extension exercises hoping to gently compress and massage some protrusions back in place over time.

It seems however that where discs are damaged beyond grade 1 level the extension exercises actually increase bulging whereas flexion movements do not, at least if accompanied by axial loading. It doesn't get any easier.

Dynamic Bulging of Intervertebral Discs in the Degenerative... : Spine

[Crystal33]

Does anyone know whether it is more herniated disc friendly to lie on one's back, stomach, or side/s?
Hard mattress or soft contour?

[fuzzy]

What I have found is that I need to constantly change position. I doesn't matter standing sitting lying. Lying down to side works best I can easy change position. Lying on my back the pain comes quick. If I sleep this way I risk waking up with strong pain. In daily life I need to keep moving or I hurt. Unfortunately that is totally contrary for the cervical myleopathy caused by bulging discs in my neck. The best for this is holding still with head against a rest. Unfortunately the rest of my spine does not agree

[dshobbies]

Crystal.

I believe your position depends on your own comfort. If you're not comfortable, your discs are pressing on something or your muscles are screaming.

Mattresses - we've had several discussion on the best mattress. Soft with firm support seemed to have won out. The top winners were Tempurpedic (visco-elastic) and the sleep numbers bed. However, your personal comfort should be your guide.

[Crystal33]

Fuzzy & DS,
thanks for your replies. Personally I cannot lay on LH side, and laying on back is starting to be less pain relieving than a few months ago. Will explore mattress options. Any accidental twisting when rolling from back to side etc is also a real pain generator for me.