Surgery with Dr Zeegers Tomorrow at 8am :)

[Karger]

8 am Wednesday Germany time is when I become Bionic Karger. Mostly man, with a bitch of machine. Wish me luck!

After reading and signing everything still scary as hell, but I am over here, paid all the money and need to do it since my L5/s1 is pretty much Jello. I keep looking at my MRI to confirm this is what i need to hopefully get out of pain.

The flight sucked. About 4 hours in, my back was killing me, like really killing me. (further confirms why i need the adr) The plane seats really really suck. I don't know how people without back problems do it. I could feel some sort of bar though the shitty cousin. Honestly, I think the plane seats causes people to have back issues. Couldn't get comfortable at all. I was up for over 24 hours, it was great to get to the hotel and finally lay down and give my back a break and let my spine decompress. I so missed my inversion table. 1000 channels to watch and they are all in German LOL.

I went to the beta Klinik today. Everyone is very nice, their wifi is broken.. The nurse who took my blood was very great at it, only felt a pinch. took about 5 vials of blood though. She then came back in because she forgot two more vials. That really hurt. guess she was lucky the first time ha. She was really nice and i think she felt bad that she put me though more pain then i needed to be in.

Dr Zeegers was really great! Super awesome guy. I did my Xray and CT scans and nothing has changed and he is confident with his perfect diagnosis! I am so happy he is so diligent with his work.

I had my last supper being a small portion of wiener schnitzel with a pint of beer while watching the soccer game! German won the other night because at 1, i woke to the whole country cheering LOL.

Well off to bed. Hopefully i can sleep since i am scared, excited, nervous, etc. I kind of wish they didn't show me all the disclaimers. Sometimes not knowing is better then knowing all the .001% chances of something going wrong.

See you on the other side. Over and out.


Karger!

[Maria]

Hi Karger!
You made it and maybe are asleep now? I don't think I could sleep if I were going to have spine surgery again since I can hardly sleep if I have a doctor's appointment the next day let alone a surgery!

Yah.. plane seats suck as far as I'm concerned.. I'd have never made it sitting thru anything more than maybe 2 hours and possibly 4 if I could move around all over the place and get up and down.. anything after that I'd be begging someone to shoot me or just throw me out door.. hence my 3 coach seat thing where I lie down for flights (buy 3 seats together which hopefully is a row to myself .. bigger planes may mean I need to buy more seats).

Side lying is painful too after so many hours but at least I can stand and walk by the time I get off the plane and function. Too much sitting and my back goes out though for back surgery would probably be just about right if an ambulance could pick me up and somehow I'd magically get taken care of until surgery!

Ok blabbing on here so really just hope you have a GREAT surgery and then a WONDERFUL recovery and everything is GOOD!

take care and hopefully we'll hear from you soon "on the other side!" Maria

[Jim M2]

Hi Karger,
I remember being miserable flying over there. I squirmed all over the place.

Good luck,

[henry4956]

Right about now, I estimate it's about 8 in the evening and you are in your 1st night of recovery on the Beta Klinik. I must warn you, that little accordion jig that plays when a patient buzzes for attention will drive you crazy by the end of your 2nd day. I wish I remembered the names of the attendants, there is one guy (middle east decent), talks very much like he is gay. Anyway he is one of the nicest people you will meet there. Please tell Dr Jung I said hello.
I didn't feel too much pain once the morphine drip was started, but for the most part you are going to be very sleepy. My real intense pain actually occurred when I released myself on 3rd day from clinic & switched over to my own meds at the hotel. You also probably won't see this until you get out of the klinik (wifi). The 1st 5 days for me were real bad, then things started to improve.
Congratulations.

[sahuaro]

Hoping your surgery went splendidly and you are in the process of recovery!

[Karger]

Hello all,

Thanks for all the responses and the shared experiences. This is something i will never forget. It's really odd laying there on the operation table and having the swat team come in and start doing stuff. They are all speaking german too so i had no clue what they were saying etc. that's probably for the best. Then out of no where Dr Zeegers was there and said "Hello Mr Karger". We chatted and he let me know everything was going to be ok. That was super comforting and I had faith that he would do everything in his power to make sure it went smooth. Then the antistatic guy said he was going to start to put me to sleep and in 1 min i would be out. They were all still talking to me and my eyes got heaver and heaver and out i was. I had a crazy dream when i was under, I remembered it when i woke up, but can't really it now due to all the meds.

My surgery took about 4 hours. Dr Zeegers said it was hard to get the disc out and the new one in due to the positioning of my l5/s1 and they had to decompress my spine. Apparently my spine was super compressed. Probably due to the shitty flight. Dr Jung said he also removed some bone that was against my cored. All in all, I don't have any more sciatic pain. i have no pain when i am up and walking around. I do have some at l5/s1 when i am laying down on the bed which is odd..

I spoke with Dr Zeegers and he was extremely happy with the surgery and how it went, even though it was a bit hard. He said he would be sending me the forums outlining the procedure step by step. I can't wait to see.

When he asked me to get out of bed and walk around, I had a huge smile on my face because there was no more pain. I never thought i would feel like that again. I got my picture taken with Dr. Zeegers and my brother. We chatted a bit before he left. The morphine makes you really sleepy. ive been doing lots of sleeping. Just when i got over my jet lag, I messed up my sleep schedule.

All in all i think it was a success.

[Maria]

Hey there.. good to hear from you! So glad that you've no more pain thus far. I think the Morphine helps a bit too with some stuff (having taken it when I first started pain management). Had to smile when I read about the shitty flight possibly compressing the disc space ~ hopefully the flight back will feel entirely different with your new back!

I remember right before my 1st back surgery (89) I was so nervous I was starting to cry and the guys rolling me into the OR told me to breath and backwards from 100 and I remember getting to 98.. zonk.. waking up in ICU (where my surgeon put me initially so that I'd have nurses turning me frequently and checking on my every need all the time the first 2 days. There was no TV in there and I was getting so bored I begged to put me in a regular room as soon as I was able to pull myself out of a druggy sleepy state!

Then once on the regular surgical unit I talked one of my friends into helping me get into the shower that first week post op and the nurses caught me, the surgeon came barreling in threatening to have me 4 point restrained because if I had fallen or would fall I'd ruin the beautiful work he'd done "back there" ..

yes.. what is it they say about nurses and doctors making the worse patients? Pretty true...

Ok end of my droning on here about my past surgical endeavors and sending you loads of good wishes for a continued wonderful recovery! Dr. Zeegers sounds like he's a magician~ making pain disappear! Congrats to him too on what appears to be successful surgery!

take care and rest up now~ Maria

[Karger]

I must say, day 3 has been the best day ever! I finally got my appetite back at all my lunch and dinner and feeling great! Going back to the hotel on Sat where I can rest up some more. But, I feel like i am making great progress. I'm off the morphine woot woot, no more zombie

[Maria]

You are really coming right along! Congrats! Now don't get too far ahead of yourself and OVERDO Glad to read you're off the Morphine and will have more energy. Hope you continue to do great with your recovery Maria

[henry4956]

Pain wise, sounds like you are doing waaaaaaaaaay better than me. I was still in severe pain till day 5 or so. taking 60-70mg of Percocet & 1800mg of ibuprofen daily. then again I was coming from 3 years of in-activity and I had 2 levels done, but who cares - I'm doing well now. it amazes me why more people don't choose Dr Zeegers, he's arguably the best spine surgeon in the world! now go have some pork & sauerkraut, topped off with some Becks

[Jim M2]

That is most excellent. Dr. Z has been doing ADR for 25 or 30 years. He is the ADR master.

[Karger]

Don't get me wrong I still have a bit of back pain, but it's totally different pain. It feels more like muscular, like brused or something like that. All my old l5/s1 pain is gone along with no sciatica pain. I do think Dr z is the ADR master. At least most of the people who see him end up with amazing results. Henry is a awesome example he went from pretty much bed ridden to walking again!

I also think I have a few things going for me that helped with the success.

1. I never had any previous operations on my back. This was my first surgery ever! I have read on. Some fourms about where they trimmed the disc but end up butchering you instead.

2. I am only 35. That could help. Perhaps the younger you are the faster you heal.

3. I selected what I think is the best surgeon for the job.

I am happy none the less!

Karger

[Karger]

Day 7.

Well I survived the week. Today I feel great. Monday I walked a bit too much because Tuesday I felt like I did a marathon and was incredibly sore. I can't describe the soreness I felt. I guess I was getting cabin fever and needed to get out. Today I feel great. Didn't over do it!

It's a great feeling of progress ever day. Even if it's just a little. Makes me feel good my money was well spent.

Karger

[mmglobal]

andrew... great news!

Please ramp up your activities slowly... remember that just getting out of the hospital to the hotel is 1,000 times the activity you've had since the surgery... then the trip home is another 1,000 fold increase. Take it easy.. get home.... ramp up your activities very carefully!

Keep the good reports coming!!! All the best,

Mark

[vnf]

Andrew

One think my doc told me that I thought was great advice after my ADR surgery.

He said make small goals. Most people will say today, I will walk to this street and then the next day walk to the street after that one. Instead, tell yourself you will walk to a certain house and the next day, walk to the house after that one.

I thought that was a great way of saying take it slow but keep moving.
I really took that to heart and did not try to make myself go from years of barely moving to hey, I will walk a mile today!

Don't over do it. I still say the pool is your best friend.

[Maria]

I appreciate that input Vicki. I remember having a big open discectomy on L5S1 and being advised to recover slowly and at my pace which I did and things worked out pretty well (until disc later re bulged and after L4 bulged).

When I had what was then termed "bandaid" back surgery in '92 and was percutaneous discectomy at L4 I was basically told I could pretty much be on my feet right away and back to work in 2 weeks. In fact in the recovery room I got up to use the bathroom and my bed was given away and I had to sit in the waiting room post surgery for my ride which the nurses at the time said "that's fine."

I don't think it was nor do I think the lack of information regarding recovery was fine either and I had a failed back surgery which really was a nightmare in epic proportions.

Needless to say what I firmly believe is take it slow and easy re recovery because the idea is to go for the long haul not the short term recovery. I know ADR is different than discectomies and fusions but really the work is done in the same area and it is surgery of a significant magnitude. btw I had been working and working out (mildly but pretty much at least 3-5x/week prior to my 2nd spine surgery so I was not inactive by any means). While I think having a "virgin spine" is a definite attribute for surgery I do think sometimes it's just the way the ball bounces with how one responds to surgery. That is even counting a wonderful surgeon such as Dr. Zeegers. Pretty much however I'm talking about the patient's part in the recovery process.

Wishing Karger continued progressively great recovery

[henry4956]

I agree with Vicki & Maria wholeheartedly. I wasn't sure how to interpret one of your early posts (it may have been on the other forum) but my 1st reaction was, take it easy - don't be anxious to declare victory too soon and fall into the trap that I've seen many others snared by. In my case for example I am 3 months out and sometimes I think I am not making progress. It's only because at this point it is very incremental and hard to notice unless you say to yourself 'Did I feel this good a month ago?' - that's when I realize I am making progress. The early gains for me after 1st week were huge because I was coming from such a low, I guess I thought I would continue to at that same pace. The other day after finishing some pool time, I was getting dressed in the locker room and I remembered how difficult/painful it used to be. A small thing, but just another measuring stick.

Have a great day.

[vnf]

Karger....how are you doing?

Please try to update more often.
When I first found these forums, I used to read through people's outcomes from their first post to their last. I found that to be a good way of what was to be expected from day 1 of surgery going forward.

Someone reading your thread who is facing what you are down the road will like to read your progress.

Even if no one is posting, people are reading it

[Karger]

Originally Posted by Vicki_in_Florida

Karger....how are you doing?

Please try to update more often.
When I first found these forums, I used to read through people's outcomes from their first post to their last. I found that to be a good way of what was to be expected from day 1 of surgery going forward.

Someone reading your thread who is facing what you are down the road will like to read your progress.

Even if no one is posting, people are reading it

Hi Vicki,

Sorry, I should update more often. Life got super busy. I'm doing pretty good. Today marks my 8 weeks. Doing good all in all.

I still have a bit of pain at the l5 area and some pain in my butt. It's very minor, nothing some Advil or a beer can cure I'd imagine that it's some growing. perhaps it's my body still getting use to the disc. It's still way way better then prior to surgery and glad i had it done.

Anyone else had the same issues post surgery?

I'm back to work, however sitting in a chair is starting to hurt my back. I can raise my desk up and stand up, but standing all day also get's exhausting. I'm back to to swimming, riding a bike, walking etc. Not going anything over the top since it's just been 2 months. Still taking it easy.

Doing some push up's, a bit of bicep work, but again nothing strenuous.

If this little bit of back/butt pain would go away, it would be awesome. I recall Dr z saying time is my friend. Guess I just need to wait and let my body continue to heal.

Other then that, 2 months without the debilitating pain I was is awesome! I never thought I would feel like this again.

I'll try to update more often. Life just got busy with summer and all.

Karger

[henry4956]

Hey Kargs, Did Dr Z say pushups are Ok? I'm dying to do something for my upper body but will not even touch another free weight again. I am 2 months ahead of you and here is my experience with sitting. Now bear in mind I virtually never sit except you know where, once a day. This is due to my dislocated coccyx not my back though. Even so, up until about 3-4 weeks ago even sitting on the John for more than 15 minutes would cause some back pain. Nothing terrible, just aggrevating. Fortunately for me it usually doesn't take that long. Sorry it I'm grossing anyone out, it's just a natural thing.

anyway, I can sit there (you know) for any length of time now and feel absolutely zero back pain.

When I tell people that I literally don't sit, they express their compassion - but really I'm so used to it - it's not a death sentence. I'll tell you what was though - it was that awful back pain that prevented me from standing and walking. But our good friend and surgeon Dr Zeegers fixed that up real good. Real good indeed! So many people seeking adrs and going for far less experienced surgeons, can't understand why. And I love my Activ-Ls

[Karger]

Originally Posted by henry4956

Hey Kargs, Did Dr Z say pushups are Ok? I'm dying to do something for my upper body but will not even touch another free weight again. I am 2 months ahead of you and here is my experience with sitting. Now bear in mind I virtually never sit except you know where, once a day. This is due to my dislocated coccyx not my back though. Even so, up until about 3-4 weeks ago even sitting on the John for more than 15 minutes would cause some back pain. Nothing terrible, just aggrevating. Fortunately for me it usually doesn't take that long. Sorry it I'm grossing anyone out, it's just a natural thing.

anyway, I can sit there (you know) for any length of time now and feel absolutely zero back pain.

When I tell people that I literally don't sit, they express their compassion - but really I'm so used to it - it's not a death sentence. I'll tell you what was though - it was that awful back pain that prevented me from standing and walking. But our good friend and surgeon Dr Zeegers fixed that up real good. Real good indeed! So many people seeking adrs and going for far less experienced surgeons, can't understand why. And I love my Activ-Ls

Hey Henry,

He didn't say anything specially about pushups. He just said for the first 6 weeks to be clam and don't do anything foolish, and if I do anything foolish I should be ok aswell. I waited until mid 7th week before I started to do push-ups. Push-ups don't hurt my back. I figured if I am allowed to bike, swim, run, a few push-ups shouldn't do any harm.

As for the mild pain here and there, I guess I just need to wait it out. I am just thankful my sicatic pain is all gone, that was super horrible.

Perhaps someone esle on this form can describe when they started to start working out etc.

Karger