Rolling the Dice and Getting a Fusion Maybe

[ADR seeker]

You don't here a lot of good things about spinal fusion but I can't afford to do to Europe and get an ADR so I'm rolling the dice and getting a fusion. If it works I will be able to return to work and save up some $$ for the proper treatment for my condition.

I am in a rant mood because I have more contempt for US health care than I do for the KKK and Hitler. It angers me to the point of rage when I think about how in July of 1969 Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon simply to thumb our greedy arrogant nose at the Soviets but we still don't have a flexible insert to place between two vertebral bodies.

The truth is we do have them and the truth is they work pretty well but the former citizens of America not subjects can't have them. The FDA owns our bodies and we and our doctors can't do with them what we please.

The Neo Disc procedure is much easier than a fusion and much more successful.

If this fusion fails I will not be pissed at the surgeon. I will do something about it. If my suffering goes on for more than a year I'm thinking about killing myself is a very spectacular manner. Americans are suffering needlessly for the shameful greed of the medical industry and it's FDA lapdogs. In the meantime write to your whore in CONgress and Senate and complain.

Back pain is big business. Fixing it quick and easy is bad for business.

I have been in touch with a leading surgeon and have discussed doing M6 and Neo Disk on Indian land.

[Maria]

I'd not waste your time doing anything spectacular in terms of "going out" post a failed spine surgery. I remember someone lighting himself on fire and running onto the freeway into oncoming traffic some years back because he couldn't get timely healthcare I believe?? I can't even recall the details of the situation altho perhaps someone else will be able to but then again that could easily be played down to say the person had severe mental health issues and those that are seeking surgical solutions re their spines will continue to do so....(altho after working in healthcare long enough I'm pretty sure the guy probably did that because he was getting squat treatment or horrible treatment or some such very valid reason).

And chronic or intractable pain can certainly ner suck the life out of someone..

So I'd save yourself that effort even in thought (not that I didn't think of it myself after my horrendously failed 2nd spine surgery with many years of ensuing chronic horrific pain).

yeah.. but I'm better now.. see.. glad I waited

If you pursue surgery I do hope it will have a good outcome. I'm sure you're very discriminating re the surgeon that you'd select.

[jsewell]

It is good to see you back again. I am glad you are trying some treatment. i have said before that not a candidate for ADR do to terrible bone density and have many levels fused. I am happy with the results, i have a wonderful loving spine surgeon. I just had him do some more decompression in my lumbar spine and extend a fusion, it is only 3 weeks out so can;t say yet how i feel about this. But i do love him. He did some work in my already fused thoracic spine and for the first time since DrRegan ruined my lung capacity by damaging my phrenic nerve i have slightly improved lung capacity. My surgeon had also straightened out my spine a bit more with this last surgery. So instead of 50% lung capacity i have achieved 63%. Makes a difference to me.

I wish you the best of luck . I hope all of your pain is gone. I hope you change your mind about going out with a bang. If nothing else i enjoy your posts and would miss them and you. Please let us know when this is happening and any more details you wish to share.
judy

[ADR seeker]

Originally Posted by Maria

I'd not waste your time doing anything spectacular in terms of "going out" post a failed spine surgery. I remember someone lighting himself on fire and running onto the freeway into oncoming traffic some years back because he couldn't get timely healthcare I believe?? I can't even recall the details of the situation altho perhaps someone else will be able to but then again that could easily be played down to say the person had severe mental health issues and those that are seeking surgical solutions re their spines will continue to do so....(altho after working in healthcare long enough I'm pretty sure the guy probably did that because he was getting squat treatment or horrible treatment or some such very valid reason).

And chronic or intractable pain can certainly ner suck the life out of someone..

So I'd save yourself that effort even in thought (not that I didn't think of it myself after my horrendously failed 2nd spine surgery with many years of ensuing chronic horrific pain).

yeah.. but I'm better now.. see.. glad I waited

If you pursue surgery I do hope it will have a good outcome. I'm sure you're very discriminating re the surgeon that you'd select.

If I do myself in it will be more spectacular than than setting myself on fire.

I think the reason they call fusion the gold standard is because it rakes in the most gold for the health care industry. It's an absurd procedure.

MDs seem to get amnesia when it comes to the neurology of the spine. What has kept me going for many years is chiropractic treatment. Other than drugs it was the only thing that reduced the pain. A fusion, if it fuses the vertebra our of alignment as they often do can and often make things much worse. Even healthy spine out of alignment will cause a person pain. If the fusion does not heal precisely and how can it. It can cause problems and down the road it will cause more DDD. ie the gold standard.

We are customers to them and because they are unregulated they can and do exploit us in some of the most sinister ways and call it standard of care. In fascist America bad medicine is far more lucrative that good medicine. Everyone of us knows several people who have been killed or maimed by US health care.

If I have this done and I survive it and the outcome is good I will still work toward changing this horrible criminal health care system but I am going to take a year off first and live it up. Then I am going to resume my efforts to reform this vile system.

[Maria]

I won't ask what you mean by more spectacular than lighting yourself on fire. I'm just going to hope that you have an incredibly successful spine surgery should you have one!

Personally I hate the idea of screws. I'm glad thus far I've avoided more spine surgery and actually feel better for it. Was a long long long time waiting and I certainly didn't really expect it (and in fact was pursuing more surgery and had various surgeries authorized but didn't feel "right" about them).

Since I went against my gut feeling on surgery #2 and had such horrible results I've been good about sticking w/"gut feeling" which has steered me clear so far of more surgery.

Still when it's time.. it's time. I still hope I can continue to avoid more spine surgery and/or any other surgery that isn't deemed emergent or absolutely necessary.

[joejoe]

I had a double level fusion L1/2, 2/3 and a double level disc replacement 3/4, and 4/5. Cedar sinai. Dr Rick Delamarter. They do do them in the United States. So far so good, Im recovering nicely.

[ADR seeker]

Originally Posted by joejoe

I had a double level fusion L1/2, 2/3 and a double level disc replacement 3/4, and 4/5. Cedar sinai. Dr Rick Delamarter. They do do them in the United States. So far so good, Im recovering nicely.

For every good US surgeon there are 50 hacks.

There are ball and socket ADR available in the US but they over rotate. The good ADRs are motion limiting.

Let's hope that your recovery continues and it is long lived. Cedar Sinai is a non profit hospital so they will be more inclined to fix you right the first time.

Here is their mission statement.

Our Mission

Cedars-Sinai Health System, a nonprofit, independent healthcare organization, is committed to:

Leadership and excellence in delivering quality healthcare services.
Expanding the horizons of medical knowledge through biomedical research.
Educating and training physicians and other healthcare professionals
Striving to improve the health status of our community

Quality patient care is our priority. Providing excellent clinical and service quality, offering compassionate care, and supporting research and medical education are essential to our mission. This mission is founded in the ethical and cultural precepts of the Judaic tradition, which inspires devotion to the art and science of healing, and to the care we give to our patients and staff.

Here is the mission statement of most US hospitals.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Here is their philosophy, visions and values.

Our Vision

Cedars-Sinai Health System will enhance its position as the leading healthcare provider in the Los Angeles area and rank highly among the nation's most respected, admired and trusted healthcare organizations. In fulfilling this role, Cedars-Sinai will:

Attract and enhance relationships with the most well-qualified, accomplished and respected physicians, scientists, nurses, other healthcare professionals and staff
Demonstrate excellent clinical quality, service quality and value
Foster a culture of superb clinical and operational performance, as well as responsive and compassionate care
Provide distinguished programs and services of excellence that build upon a tradition of clinical innovation, biomedical research, medical education and community service

Remain at the forefront of advances in medicine and science through a strong, ongoing commitment to biomedical research and medical education
Provide superior capabilities, facilities and technology for the full continuum of healthcare services
Attract patients from regional, national and international markets by providing services directly, as well as through arrangements with other healthcare organizations that meet Cedars-Sinai Health System's standards of quality and service

Our Values

In the pursuit of this Vision, the actions of leadership, staff and other physicians will be guided by the following values:

Integrity
Excellence
Teamwork and Collaboration
Respect
Compassion
Innovation
Stewardship
Diversity

[Maria]

Having written a few for medical facilities I think they should be written by patients instead otherwise it's just a bunch of hollow words.

[mmglobal]

If you would like, before you do the fusion, talk to me about ADR options in the US. Call the number on the GPN website... business hours California time.

Mark

[cherylstewart67]

i would not do fusion unless it was the last option. unless the spinal cord was at high risk. fusion can and most likely will lead to more surgery donw the road. i wish i could go back; i would have had adr if i had known about it.

[dshobbies]

Too often, the choice of fusing is based on factors not related to the best medical decision but more of finances, bad advise and ignorance. You simply cannot help someone who is unwilling to help themselves and we've said enough about the greedy world of health care.

When faced with only two choices, pain or fusing, and you know no better, which one would anyone take?

[jsewell]

NOt everyone is eligible for ADR. My bone density being too low eliminated that possibility for me. So i choose fusion over pain for sure.
judy

[Maria]

And this is for anybody~ if you don't feel comfortable about the procedure, the surgeon, the explanation or non explanation of the surgery and/or the consent form .. say something and get things cleared up before you sign the consent for surgery and/or are wheeled into the Operating room under anesthesia.

We do make the choice to actually have the surgery unless emergency circumstances prevail and we do sign the consent forms so really try to do whatever choosing to do with the full knowledge that other than a horrific and detectable mistake on the surgeons part or someone involved in the surgical process we are going to have to live with the results.

Results may be great, good, mediocre, not so good, pretty bad and plain old horrific.

No guarantees. Do your homework prior to surgery and go into it knowing the best choice was made given everything involved.

[jsewell]

ADR Seeker are you any closer to a decision on a fusion? Just wondering
judy

[mmglobal]

Originally Posted by ADR seeker

There are ball and socket ADR available in the US but they over rotate. The good ADRs are motion limiting.

It is amazing how effective marketing in this field is. The makers of the metal on metal prostheses try to make us believe that the poly core prostheses are inferior (and vice versa.) The makers of the keeled prostheses try to make us believe that no-keel is a problem. The makers of the prostheses with less motion try to make us believe that more motion is bad, and the makers of the more mobile prostheses try to make us believe that the opposite is true.

If you are a good candidate and you get a good job done, you stand a very good chance of success. The prosthesis is much less important than other factors, like quality of diagnosis, technically excellent carpentry, etc... If you are a poor candidate or you get a poor implantation, you chance of success is dramatically reduced, no matter which prosthesis you choose.

All of the differences from one device to the next come with advantages and disadvantages. It is difficult to know how much weight to assign to each feature.

All I know is that my lumbar spine is still 1,000 times better than I ever thought it would be. I have known for years that if I were to get lumbar ADR today, it would not be Charite'. However, if I had to choose between Charite' and fusion, I would still take the Charite'. Choose ADR or no ADR based on the merits of motion preservation. Time will lead us to more optimum designs. However, as it stands now, the difference between devices in the current crop of ADR's is sooooo much less important than other factors. IMHO, we will see failed spine surgeries with more optimum designs as often as with less optimum designs, because they fail because of poor indications and technically poor implantations.

Mark

[james]

"Back pain is big business. Fixing it quick and easy is bad for business."

Medical fields are an obvious case of conflict of interest. We don't talk about this because we are used to it and because whoever is in Medial field is damn powerful. Why on earth a doctor would be interested in curing you. Regardless of his outcome, he gets his money. Some do a better job, get a reputation and get more patients, but that is not a big motivation because there are enough patients for doctors.

I'm an engineers. If my work is not reviews do I deliver.

[ADR seeker]

Update:

I saw a surgeon. He was rude and dismissive and I was being a good boy. My wife was there are she saw it the same way. This quack told me something not other surgeon told me. He said that my spinal canal is congenitally too small and that is why the disks are giving me such a hard time. He offered ESI epidural steroid injection even after I told him I can't have anymore cortisone. I was ODed on it. Got a big muscle injection of it after a DXR 9000 machine malfunctioned and over pulled, separated at the magnetic clasp and caused my head to slam down on the table. I was also given steroid inhalers for sinus which I found out is really cervicogenic in nature, while at the same time I was given cortisone suppositories for hemorrhoids caused by all the Knox NutraJoint I was eating.

The over dose of cortisone cause panic attacks, vertigo and tinitus. Cortisone is a bad drug for a lot of people. It can to irreversible damage and it can take up to 18 month to leave your body.

You would think by now there would be a safe alternative to cortisone.

My only hope is new generation ADR. I am selling off stuff now but it won't be enough. I will end up a med head. That is my future. Thank you FDA and greedy American health care industry. I hope all you FDA crooks and doctors get cancer.

[mmglobal]

If the pedicles are shorter than normal, the spinal canal will be smaller than normal. In patients with smaller than normal spinal canals, issues causing stenosis that may be asymptomatic in others, can be highly symptomatic. It is not uncommon to have this issue go unmentioned by several doctors before it is highlighted by one. This is especially true if the condition is borderline.

Mark

[ADR seeker]

Originally Posted by mmglobal

If the pedicles are shorter than normal, the spinal canal will be smaller than normal. In patients with smaller than normal spinal canals, issues causing stenosis that may be asymptomatic in others, can be highly symptomatic. It is not uncommon to have this issue go unmentioned by several doctors before it is highlighted by one. This is especially true if the condition is borderline.

Mark

I was told by many doctors that should not be having the pain is was reporting. Of course they only read the cheat sheet and never looked at the films that extra 5 minutes required to do so was just to valuable and it was much easier to call me a liar and tell me to go away.

I had another Dr look at my MRI and in his opinion my cord is being contacted at C 3-4 and C 5-6. I think that would fix me is 2 or 3 of the new ADRs which I can't get since I am broke and live in the US. I tried compassionate use through the FDA but I can't find a doctor ambitious enough to do the work. This is a death sentence. Thank you God and thank you US health care system.