Help, herniated T6/T7

[newhere]

like the thread say, herniated t6 t7. Suffering allready 2 years. Every doctor say that herniation is to small to cause pain. Please some info about sugery or some "helpfull" thing, altough i try every consevative treatment. Tnx

[mmglobal]

Newhere... welcome to the forum.

Motion preservations technologies are usually not in play for the t-spine because there is so little motion there.

Typical endoscopic techniques are not in play because there is so much bony structure around the t-spine, it's hard to get in without removing so much bone that the stability is too severely impacted.

Dr. Jho in Pittsburgh does a 'keyhole' surgery where he accesses the canal area from the front of the spine by drilling through the vertebral body. I would not do this procedure with anyone else, or with anyone who's done hundreds and has been doing it for years. This will never be in the range of the average surgeon.

Dr. Regan does VATS surgery at this level... less invasive than traditional thoracic surgeries.

XLIF procedures are even less invasive.

Hopefully, you'll get away without surgery, but if you must be cut... do your homework... make informed decisions!

Mark

[jsewell]

Hi Newhere
I had terrible thoracic pain and did have the VATS procedure done by DrRegan. My spine surgeon sent me to him as DrRegan is well known and highly regarded. My experience with him was not good. He did remover the T-6 disc that was bothering me terribly for years. Also he was supposed to remove T11-12. WEll at the end of the surgery i had lost lots of blood, he never gave me any, had problems with my oxygen saturation and kept on going to remove hardware in the back that he did not discuss with me.
I ended up that day on a respirator as i stopped breathing. He never came to see me during my 12 day hospital stay, no one ever looked at my incision or told me how to take care of it. Then he went away for 2 weeks.
I went back to my spine surgeon for treatment.
My regular spine surgeon would have had to do an open thoracotomy to get to the disc (which i ended up having a partial thoracotamy to untrap my lung)
So i highly do not recommend DrRegan, he spends no time with his patients and would not answer any of my questions when i confronted him.
judy

[newhere]

oh man... i have considered two options. Dr. jho or Dr. Regan.
Now when i read yours comments,i dont know what to do. Both of them,is then "failure"??? ((((((((

[newhere]

and jsewell,how are you since your thoracotomy? which level have you operated? im only 25 and i want to live...this constant pain is killing me!
so please some more info for ancourage me

[Maria]

Re read what mmglobal stated re Dr.Jho. I read/understood that Mark wouldn't go with anyone who didn't have as much experience as Dr.Jho and that this was out of the range of the average surgeon which Dr.Jho isn't (if I'm reading correctly what Mark wrote). If you considered Dr.Jho and Dr.Regan perhaps you'd want to still consider Dr.Jho based on what was written here. I had a good experience w/consult with Dr.Regan but no surgery w/him.

[dshobbies]

I just posted a similar response.

Judy, I believe yours is the first post I've read of a disappointing surgical experience with Dr. Regan.

His hands enjoy and mostly deserve as good a reputation, if not even better while his bedside manner and communication suffer at the bottom. Too bad he's not interested in improving that which he is lacking.

Curious Judy, what doctor looked after you in the hospital? Why didn't the nurses check on your incision and tell you how to treat it? I also wonder why/how the hospital doesn't insist on surgeons looking in on their patients at least once a day - did you complain or speak to someone about your lack of care? Did you have any kind of follow-up appointment in his office?

I too had problems with Dr. Regan's patient skills but he did not do my surgery. My feeling is we all deserve the best health care from any professional which includes talking to them, good or bad and keeping them informed.

I hope you're doing better - Dale

[jsewell]

I'm sorry i did not respond sooner, i just read this.
Well at the end of it all DrRegan did remove T7-8 with his VATS procedure. It is now pain free. WAs not for months though so don't get discouraged if you have the surgery and it is not instant relief.
He was also to do the same surgery on T11-12. He could only get out half of the disc as they had to reinflate my lung do to oxygen issues. It ends up i have found out (my own research and hours at pulmonologists) that at the time of removing T7-8 my phrenic nerve was damaged. it conttols the diaphram muscle. I was left with only 45% lung capacity . makes it hard to go up a flight of stairs and i was a mountain trail runner. My lower disc is still painful. he then turned me over and removed all the thoracic hardwear my surgeon had put in to stabalize my spine and hopefully remove some pain. My surgeon wanted more thoracic discs removed but Regan refused unless i went through discography again. My insurance co. left me with the bill refusing to pay for it in the thoracic spine so i did not need a repeat of that.
AFter surgery in the PACU they had problems with my breathing, then i stopped altogether and was put on a respirator , in lots of pain as no pain drugs could be given and stabilized after many hours and sent to ICU for a few days.
REgan's assistant came by in my room and in 2 days told me to go home. I could not walk more than one or 2 steps without my oxygen saturation dropping, i was severly anemic and could barely breathe. A primary care doc appeared and told me i could not go home. I was relieved.
The nurses refused to look at my incision which was totally covered , actually just about my whole back was totally covered. DrRegan's assistant did not come at all the next 9 days i was in the hospital. No one came to see me at all. I complained to every dept possible. They all said they would help. Finally the pulmonologist and primary care doc decided they would not discharge me until REgan appeared. They called him with every # they had. I had daily conversations with his office asking me if he had come by. He never came. The hospital found him in OR's and told him he had to come by. Still did not.,
His office called to tell me about my follow up visit at 10 days. Well i was still in the hospital. They told me after he was going out of town for 2 weeks and that would be too long without someone looking at the incision. He still never showed.
I called my spine surgeon and toldl him what was going on. So i saw him the day after Christmas and he checked my incision and removed all the covering. He always uses glue so i have nothing to hide the incision and i can see it too.
I went to see Regan about 3 times in his office asking what happened, he said nothing happened. Finally when i went to give him one more try last summer and ask him if i was now kyphotic do to the hardwear removal he asked if i was the one who lost a lot of blood? Llike i was awake to know?
He said no way did i have kyphosis going on. Then he sent me for an xray , came back and said you sure do have kyhosis. I guess he never looked at me, only the xray.
Also my spine surgeon , who had sent me to the world's best, wrote him a letter as well as saw him in person and apparantly let him have it for treating me so poorly or not treating at all. Regan's comment that he told me was that i had psych issues going on.!!!!!! Yes, i am on antidepressants. What that has to do with not breathing i don't know.

Anyway you guys asked for some more info and this is still very tender in my heart that a doctor could not care at all for a patient.

But he is a good surgeon, i have no pain at the T-7-8 area. I hear he is expensive and can tell by the bills i am suddenly receiving. I had him operate when he still took BC. I always wondered if his assistant at the time, DDrBady actually removed that disc and injured the nerve. I had a wonderful anesthesiologist at Cedars and the nurses do come when the button is pushed!! dR Marshke is the primary i had. So there was lots of good.
I have found one of the 2 surgeons in the US that work on the phrenic nerve, i have sent him all my pulmonary info and he thinks he can help me get some function back so all is good.
I would love to sit down and talk to DrRegan, but i doubt he would do that for me.
Good lluck i don't know what the other procedure is and what is easier for you to get to, but i wish you all the best for relief soon. Ask away any more questions or pm me or i could call you, let me know. You are much too young to be dealing with this
judy

[jsewell]

Newhere
let us know what is going on with you.
thanks
judy

[newhere]

thank you jsewell
i feel "easyer" when i read this...
how i am now?...not so good realy...
i have sharp pain in my back,between my shulder blades and pain radiates to other parts...my whole left site of the back,are sooo tight and paintfull...
also having alot cracking in my sternum,an pain in front of the chest.
you say no more pain from your ex(hihi) t7 t8 disc,im so glad for this )))
please describe me your simptoms before sugery...tnx
sorry for my bad english,im not english...

[jsewell]

I'm glad you feel easier. I did not want anyone to feel DRRegan was a bad surgeon from my unlike of the person.

My symptoms first were pain in between my shoulder blades or when i rotated my trunk. There was a machine in physical therapy which started causing more and more pain where you sit and rotate to more weight. Side to side. That really hurt at the end before i told my therapist i thought it hurt too much to do it.
In the beginning it would take a lot to trigger this pain in the shoulder blades and it was easier to make it go away. I would hike about 2 miles up hill before it hit. Laying down flat was the solution or changing activity. It did spread around to my thoracic spine, but i could kind of tell where it started.

By the end it hurt really bad sometimes just to go into the grocery store for a few minutes and i had abandoned groceries needing to sit in my car .
But a sharp pain between my shoulder blades was the end and radiating it seemed everywhere. I also had pain in my ribs and kind of muscle spasms.
My surgeon tried steroid shots in my thoracic spine. They did absolutely nothing.
At this time i had already had ACDF Cervical 4-7. Then a new hip and surgery on my knee so during all that my thoracic calmed down as i was always recovering from surgery.
In Jan'09 my spine surgeon put hardwear in most of my thoracic spine to see if that would help. WEll I woke up with pain worse than childbirth. Found out 5 months later i had a muscle inflammatory condition . My muscles being cut was terribly painful and i really did a lot of crying. Had seizures, i said from the awful pain.
WEll in the summer, stilll no relief so i asked if i could have discography to prove it was the discs. He agreed and off I went to another painful procedure. The first disc this doctor did was my really bad one. More crying , more pain worse than childbirth. So when it came to the other thoracic discs i rated them like a 5 or 6 as the first was the worse. Not enough pain generated for DrRegan to operate on them. But i was really comparing them to the first horrible horrible one.
My surgeon got the results first hand from the doc that did the discography the next morning saying i definately tested positive for disc pain.
So the planning for surgery began.
A few days before my original surgery date something happened to T11-12. horrible pain to ride in a car or sit. I think the hardwear had come loose or broken or something. WHen my original surgery was cancelled a few days later i thought i would die with these 2 pain generators. At that time my pm doc fired me too.

But always the burning stabbing spreading pain to the shoulder blades. Ice worked the best for me. My pm (new one) ordered me a tens unit I think it worked while it was on , but no lasting relief. Same with the ice, once i thawed out, pain was back.
I was fired from my special ed teaching job before the spine really kicked in so i have not been working .
Just remembered another trigger , leaning over children's desks in school.

Have you had discography done? How do you know it is that one disc level?
Where are you from and where are you living now? Sorry i am being nosey just don't answer if you don't want to , i certainly would not be offended
judy

[newhere]

"By the end it hurt really bad sometimes just to go into the grocery store for a few minutes and i had abandoned groceries needing to sit in my car"....im also TOTALY like this...can even go with my friends out...when i go it makes me so paintfull,that i freak out and go home,and again lay frustrating on the cauch or bed(best position for pain relief for me is when i lay on the side) then i dont feel so much pain...but when i sit,stand,walk...is terrible...ok so my answers for you:
1. Discography not yet(jet)???...but i have plans for that. Only one surgeon say discography to confirm that disc is pain generator,altough i think it is.
2. My MRI of thoracic spine only shows small herniation of T6/T7 level,but as i have read,small herniations can reproduce also pain,especialy if there is a annular tear. My simptoms dont decrese after 2 years,NOTHING!! Pain is exact as the first day,even worse.
3. I came from Croatia. And here neurosurgeons have zero practice with thoracic spine...so im searching for some international solutions. I realy cant live like this at my 25 age.
Thans Judy for your help

[jsewell]

Your English is great. I sure can't communicate in another language. It is yet for that word.
I don't think i ever tried my side , but it makes sense that that would be the best.
What part of the country are you living in? I have a 25 year old son and i just can't imagine him in so much pain, it would kill me.
I certainly would be getting him taken care of somehow.
Have you contacted Regan's office yet? Or the other doctor that Mark suggested? I know one thing Regan is expensive.
When i had the discography it showed lots of tears and small protrusions and a few that were more severe, not sure if the one removed was the most severe though. As you said they can be small and still generating a lot of pain.
I'm not sure if other doctors would operate without a discogram, i know mine and Regan would not on me anyway. Good that you are getting one.
judy

[newhere]

Judy,no i have not contact allready dr. Regan but i will definetly.
Which doctor Mark suggested? I didnt see?!?!?
Do you maybe know price of dr Regans VATS procedure????

[jsewell]

I think Mark suggested you see either DrRegan or that other DrJHO (i think is how he spelled it)
He just said for the procedure that DrJho does do not let anyone but him do it.
I'm afraid i do not know how much DrRegan would charge. I had his surgery when he was still taking my insurance in 2009. It was in December . Now this Dec i got a bill from him. Another one this month. I do not plan on paying either , just do to my circumstances with him. And i don't know why i am getting a bill a year later.
judy

[dshobbies]

Newhere,

Welcome to the forum - don't worry about your English - if we can understand what you're trying to say, that's all we need.

Please start a new post - where are you and what are your circumstances?

Dale

[newhere]

update...today was sooo paintfull day that i allmost do nothing whole day.
Pain in front of my chest is terrible,sharp stabing pain like knife is inside...i thing its form herniation due compressed nerves,do also someone have or feel strong chest pain??? tnx

[mmglobal]

I had my heart worked up twice in recent years for chest pain that was probably related to my spine. But, when a 50 year-old man presents with chest pain... just because you have neck problems that may cause chest pain, it does NOT mean that you are not having a heart attack. You must take it seriously, even if it's from your spine.

Good luck... let us know how it goes.

Mark

[steve55]

I've noticed that many surgeons don't believe in the validity of discograms. My current neuro ,dr Cattorini here in Dallas, doesn't seem to believe in them. Do discograms really identify the pain generator? Also, my neuro says that if they did any type of surgery on the thoracic, they would fuse posteriorly but they would not remove the disc (discetomy). I don't like the sound if that. I firmly believe that simply stopping movement won't solve the problem. I think it's the discs themselves that are generating the pain. My mri looks good, I have no thoracic protrusions or stenosis, just thinning discs. So I think its the discs themselves (t4) that are causing my pain. Anyways, It looks like my lyrica suddenly stopped working, my symptoms have returned with a vengeance these last 2 days. Quite dissapointing. I wonder if I'll be needing the services of dr regan someday. The vats sure seems alot easier to go through than a typical thorectemy.

Jsewel, how much worse or difficult was the vats surgery compared to your cervical fusions? Good to hear that your t7 and t8 pain is resolved. It must mean the discogram was accurate in identifying the primary pain generator.

[jsewell]

Steve
the pain after the VATS was for breathing. It hurt so much to take a breath that i just stopped breathing in PACU AND was put on a respirator. All without pain meds.
I really believe whoever got to that disc damaged the nerve that controls breathing (phrenic). That started all my problems.
So my cervical 3 level fusion was much less painful (swallowing was difficult but my prescription for that was ice cream!!!)
The lower one that i wanted drRegan to do and he only got the posterior half is still painful, but i have a fracture there now. My surgeon just showed it to me today., So that one is not resolved yet.
judy

[Keano16]

As already stated here. T-spine is hardest to treat. And I must admit that symptoms related to T-spine are very strange sometimes (it's been reported in some scientific papers that T-spine herniations even cause radicular symptoms like when you have herniated lumbar disc).

Unfortunately, in Croatia nobody treats T-spine. Most reasonable it sounds to travel abroad for surgery. But when considered current economical situation here, not sure who can afford that.

Regards!

[newhere]

slazem se...hehe
i must agree with him...its hard to afford so much money...but still,health doesent have price

[mmglobal]

There is controversy over discograms in the lumbar spine. However, it is little compared to the controversy in cervical or thoracic discs. The volume of the discs is so much lower, some believe that getting good discography results is impossible.

The difference between a well done discography and a poorly done one is dramatic. Also, the people who perform discography do not believe that is the definitive, be all, end all test. It is more data that is added to the evaluation. Greater weight is given to clear results. Less weight given to less clear results. The people who don't beleive in discography don't seem to understand that all is not black and white.

[jsewell]

I might add it is a very painful test in the positive levels and not painful at all in the ok normal levels. At least that was my experience. My spine surgeon hand picked a pain management doc to do the test, not my regular one as he did not think he had enough experience in getting good results.
because of this my pain management doc decided he could no longer treat me .
Left me hanging

[Keano16]

Mark, you wouldn't believe but many renowned experts in field of MISS have completely abandoned discography. I will quote what Ji-Sun Kim told me recently (very experienced and well known MISS surgeon from Wooridul Spine Hospital):

"In terms of discography, it has lost its confidence when surgeons decide important surgical strategy. Eugene Carrage already reported many articles about discography."

I haven't asked him for more detailed explanation. But if someone is interested, I suggest finding Carrage's articles.

Secondly, according to some studies discography needs to be pressure controlled. However, equipment for that is too expensive and surgeons rarely have this in their OR. We don't have that in Croatia, but we have good success with discography during surgery or just as a diagnostic method. We will definitely continue using it on patients.

[newhere]

so,next week i am scheduled for discography for t6/t7 & L3/L4...i will keep you posted....

[Keano16]

You mean L4-L5 ?

Good luck. Hope situation will be clear after this diagnostic procedure.

[cherylstewart67]

There is a palce called up and open MRI in Richardson, TX. I have followed up on. They take a .70 tesla with or without contrast with you sitting up right in an open MRI. Most MRI are taken lying down. This does not show the compression that you truly have. Sometimes by the time you can see buldging discs or never impengment on an MRI it really bad. Go to "Up Right" or Up and Open MRI in Richardson Tx and see the difference for youself. Some PHD surgeons know that MRI don't always show what is going on.

[jsewell]

Newhere I am glad you are moving forward with this. Good Luck next week and please let us know how it went and what the results are? Is the lumbar area also being painful? Are they going to test a non painful disc to tell the difference?
I only have experience with one of these procedures , but it gave positive results for me. I wish the same for you
judy

[newhere]

yes,my lumbar area is also paintfull,allready for years now. from 17 i start problems with my low back and now this thoracic part also....
i think i have DDD in my low back,so i will see after discography what next. same for thoracic area...
hope some solutions will finaly came?!?!
for lumbar i have a hope, but for thoracic im sceptical :S
keep you posted...

[jsewell]

newhere keep up the hope for both areas. It took me a while to figure out what i thought was causing the pain . I have a good local surgeon that i happened upon when i moved back to California. He told me he believed all my pain was real and kept helping me anyway he could think of. He was going to do an open thoracotomy if he had to . Then he sent me to DrRegan and the rest is history. I would have gone for the whole thoracotomy just to get rid of the horrible pain. I was so limited.
Oh i was reading some of my notes to my doctor and saw that laying on my side did offer relief at the end before surgery, same as you.
I'm keeping hope going that you get both areas taken care of, i know you can.,

[newhere]

when i lay normal on my back...i have so big pain between blades,i dont know word on enlish for that,but i can compare it with, when you have rock in your shoes,so its this/pain. only comfordation i found when i lay on the side...you dont need to lay like this anymore after surgery or???

[jsewell]

After a few months into healing i could lay anyway on my back. That was after the VATS surgery to remove the painful disc at T7-8. Yes i had the horrible pain in between shoulder blades too.

[Maria]

Several weeks ago when I pushed/pulled this super big old fashioned TV on the floor after the entertainment center had been removed I had not only neck pain (and a migraine) but a stabbing pain between my left shoulder blade and my vertebrae. It was deep and I could not get comfortable on my back to sleep yet that's how I have to sleep when my neck is hurting badly (with a horseshoe pillow). That night I got almost no sleep because of lack of comfortable position. That pain subsided although I've had it before just not to that degree or at least not while lying down. Pretty intolerable to not be able to find a position of comfort in which to sleep!

[newhere]

at least i can sleep relatively normal,because i lay on the side. lying normal on the back its mission impossible.
jsewell...when you say few months,does this means 2-3 months, or 5-6-7,or more?

[jsewell]

More like 2 or 3 months to heal. Now i wasn't doing very much so it did not bother me very much , only a few times and i was scared it was not fixed. so i did go to see DrRegan and ask him and he said i still had losts of healing time left. Just never told me what happened in surgery!!!
Glad you can sleep well

[newhere]

update2. Today i get rentgen pictures for heart and lungs. every seems to be ok,but still i have pain in front of my chest...i think,like some few doctors,this pain cames from pinched nerve from thoracic who travels all around ribs and chest...maybe ultrasound will show up something ?!?!.....

[jsewell]

I was sent for a bone scan of my whole body when i had the unknown thoracic pain. The only thing wrong was 2 broken ribs (i didn't even know i had them) . I got those trying cross country skiing in between hip surgeries. I also had the wrap around pain , just the doctors have to rule out anything else it could be first. i guess that is the process you seem to be in.
good luck with this
judy

[mmglobal]

I'm somewhat disappointed with the results of my costovertebral joint injections, but still believe in the diagnostic process that they do at the BetaKlinik in Bonn. I have not found anything even close to the thorough process and extraordinary diagnostic ability of doctors Reul and Jung.

[newhere]

when you mention joints...i was on procedure called, facet block injections in t6 t7 t8 area...but didnt helped at all. but for costovertebral i didnt hear...at least here in our country ...

[jsewell]

newhere those facet injections in my thoracic spine did nothing . They have helped once in my lumbar spine and it lasted a year. I am getting some next wed and hope they help my lumbar spine again.

Mark, i am sorry the injections did not help with pain. but i think that must tell the doctors something. I'm sure you know what!!
judy

[newhere]

so,tomorow i am heading to discography. im not afraid at all,only some adrenalin goes through my body i realy want that discography confirm that my disc is pain generator. wish me a luck ))

[Keano16]

Good luck tomorrow. Hopefully dr. Saftic will be able to differentiate pain sources and recommend you appropriate treatments then...

[jsewell]

Good Luck tomorrow . I'll be thinking of you and hoping you get some results that you want and need to decide the proper treatment. Discography is what really helped with my diagnosis.
judy

[newhere]

ok...so its like this...50% happy, 50% unhappy... im happy because discogram shows anular tear at L4/L5 disc,because this provocation makes realy STRONG pain, like when i have it when i stand at one spot, or when i must walk. now bad and frustrating thing...when my dr try to acces my T6/T7 disc he say it could not enter it,because this is to hard to puncture,he was near this because i see it on screen,and then he stops...so now am realy unpleasent for this thoracic part,because im again stuck in the middle...thats whas my last hope

[jsewell]

Did the Dr talk to you after about what that meant when the disc was too hard to puncture? do you have a follow up appointment to discuss what the results mean? I'm so sorry you are disappointed, but i hope that gave the doc. some info anyway.
What is the treatment for the lumbar painful area?
judy

[newhere]

no,he didnt...he only tells,he thinks pain doesent came from my t6 t7 disc...for lower area solution is selective endoscopic discectomy with annuloplasty...so probably i will go to this...but thoracic...is still mistery for me...what next...hm...nothing...

[newhere]

so any suggestion what next? for lumbar i know,but for thoracic im still in the same spot and still with unsolved pain ?!???

[Hooch]

If it's discogenic the options are to risk fusing it or wait for stem cell technology and see if u can get some benefit from that. You know better than anyone that many docs have trouble even believing that pain comes from thoracic discs.. unfortunately all that can be done is wait until medical technology proves them wrong... again.

U are too young to have this.. sorry I can't help with options in Croatia. I'm sure there are options that can be investigated internationally.. but v. expensive of course.

[jsewell]

newhere you are way too young to be suffering like this. I don't know enough about discograpy to know why your doctor could not puncture it. It was the test that proved to my doctors that i had a bad enough disc to remove. Did you get any info from an MRI that shows bad discs or a Ct?
I'm glad you have a plan to get rid of the lumbar pain
judy

[newhere]

MRI shows only litlle left-central herniation. thats all. but i will upload photo so people can see it and say opinion. as i been heard form some dr. that even small herniations causes so big pain. how can i know if i have annular tear or something wrong from the disc by himself inside?...only with discography...hm...hm....hm...at least i know whats up with my lumbar part,so im preparing myself for this. But with this thoracic crap,i will never stop. i dont exept"live with this" answer....so i will nerever stop,untill i know from where pain cames from .

[newhere]

as i promissed...here is the link for my thoracic. its realy small herniation,but how i can now if its from disc or not?!?!??
ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

[jsewell]

I did not see this until tonight. I cannot read these things , is it the dark disc in question? I'm afraid mine was only proven and approved for surgery with the results of the discography. It cause so much pain i was in tears. Before that imaging did not show anything that bad.

When is your lumbar procedure?
I also did not give up, and you need to keep going too, i could not have lived like that as narcotics only touched the pain. I had no way to get relief.
judy

[newhere]

lumbal part for 2 months.
im still in pain every day,esspecialy from thoracic.
i buy inversion table but im sceptical for this...
curently dr regan review my case and my mri...but im pretty sure he can say nothing special without discography...?!?!
P.S. I still think that my pain comes from black(degenerated) disc....as my lumbal,l4 l5 black disc,who was positive on discography...

[Hooch]

Hi, just want to say u are right, keep fighting until you get answers and options.

Best

[newhere]

yes i will. today im so depressed. i dont have feling for anything,for happines,for food,for anything...i think is due the fact that anyone unable to help me...
should i go to psihyatrist for depression...i dont thing antidepressants will hepl to give me some relief from pain..???

[Hooch]

A lot of people find they help. I suppose its part of managing chronic pain as best you can. There is lots of grief for what it takes from you i found. awful

If you can access the funds for health care that is great. Surely u can find someone somwhere to do discography if that is all that is in the way before considering surgery? have u kept an eye on stem cells? they reckon they are getting closer, still not ready yet tho.

Stay strong Newhere i have respect

[jsewell]

Newhere i also became depressed as i felt everything was taken away from me. Now i am having lumbar pain that is waking me up at night. It never ends with me.

Does DrRegan know the doctor could not puncture your disc when you tried having discography? If not i would make sure i get that word to him. Maybe no body can or maybe some other doctor with more experience could do that. I know when my spinal doc sent me for discography (at my request) he hand picked a doctor that he knew could perform the test best in our area.

I am on anitdepressants. It does not help with the pain, but does with the mind and mood. I am basically happy, but in pain .
judy

[newhere]

i tryed allready,before 2 years. name was zoloft(sertaline)...but i didnt find this medicine helpfull at all. so i will try to get a stronger ones or something different...tnx for your support
BTW dr Regan knows for unsuccesfull discography...he is aware of this(thanks to Mark)
Mark is the guy who realy want to help me, so big thanks to him!!!

[Maria]

newhere,
I read what you said re feeling depressed and it's of course only natural to feel this way when dealing w/unrelenting pain and great limitations. I once felt that way as well after my 2nd back surgery failed. Nothing made me happy, there seemed to be no answers, or no one (doctor) that I was able to see willing to give me one. I did see a pyschiatrist for 6 months and was on medication for depression for this amount of time. Just had to get to a mental place where keeping hope alive was an option and kind of live moment to moment re dealing w/the pain.

Hang in there and no matter what you think isn't offered to you today or an option today keep your mind focused on new day is a day that might lead to a different scenario or a better one.

Mark's been a great help to many of us here so good to hear you're connected w/him already. Best wishes for progress and relief~ Maria

[dshobbies]

Newhere,

Unfortunately, depression goes along with this kind of pain. For two years I had no life. I couldn't even sit at the kitchen table to eat dinner with my family. Until I discovered ADRs, I thought I'd either have to live my life with severe pain or have a 4 level fusion that in all probability would have left me quite disabled.

You should never give up hope because there is a light at the end of the tunnel. True, the tunnel can be very long and you might be crawling through with the speed of a snail but know there is a light.

I know of two women, one cervical and one lumbar patient, both severely depressed and both suicidal. One of them 'accidentally' overdosed on pain meds. The other is busy traveling all over the world after years of relentless pain. Fighting to stay positive was difficult but so worth it for her and it is for you.

If you find your depression too difficult to bear, please try other medications or combinations of meds. This is not a one size fits all. We're all individuals with varying reactions to all the medications out there. Please keep trying. You are worth it.

Dale

[newhere]

thank you for your support...it means alot to me.
realy hope i will see this light one day....as others also... ?!???

Damir

[jsewell]

I had to try a few different antidepressants to find the right one for me and then had to add more and get the right combination. so don't give up there either.
I'm glad Mark is helping you.
judy

[newhere]

woooow
1029 views.
im top...hahahah

[newhere]

i buy inversion table...can someone tell me experience with it? tnx

[jsewell]

sorry none here , but my brother keeps telling me to get one. You are very popular. We don't want to see someone so young going through this and i certainly want you cured.
judy

[newhere]

oh Judy,...i realy take this to my heart.
thank you alot
yes im 25 and i want to live...grrrrrr

[dshobbies]

I used an inversion table for years, prior to my ADR surgery. Though I found relief using the table, it didn't 'cure' anything. Perhaps I could haved used it more often or ???? but it is good for quick pain relief.

My suggestion is use the tether and only go about 45* down, not completely upside down. Start very slow, only 10 seconds or so and increase your time gradually. When turning upright, stay on the machine for a minute of so, especially if you feel dizzy. Try to relax when using the machine - you might have the tendancy to tense up.

Unfortunately, it is conta-indicated after ADR and I suppose after fusion too. I'd still like to use it.

There is also a sitting version of the inversion tables though I have no personal experience with these. And please check with your doctor before using it.

Dale

[tedk]

I'm an athletic man in my early 40's.

I experienced mid-back back pain and radial neuropathy down my legs for about 8 years, culminating in an acute event (popping sound while doing a chin-up) in March of 2010. I was diagnosed with a herniation at T6-T7 that was impinging slightly, but noticeably, on the spinal cord, as well as a severe herniation at C3-C4 (which I'd known about since about 2000)

Dr. Pennings of the Spine Center, UMass Memorial Hospital, Worcester, MA, USA first did an ACDF with a cage on the C3-C4 joint in July 2010. The committee at this teaching hospital felt that a) the C3-C4 degeneration was life-threatening and b) might also address the lower-body neuropathy, so they did this one first.

The ACDF addressed the neuropathy in my arms and upper body, but did not change the symptoms in my lower torso and legs (weakness, lack of coordination, numbness/heat).

11 days ago I finally had XLIF surgery to address T6-T7. It seems to have improved my symptoms, but I'm still feeling things out a bit. The surgery was done through an 8.5cm (3.25 inch) incision on my right side. Dr. Pennings cut a section out of a rib and had the anesthesiologist partially deflate my right lung to reduce the possibility of injuring it as he worked toward the spine. He cut some bone away for access (don't exactly know this detail) and then cut away the offending part of of the disc, thereby decompressing the spinal cord.

Surgery took about 4 hours in total. My lung reinflated successfully with the help of a negative pressure chest tube inserted into the pleural space for about 5 hours post-op, and I went home the following day due to the benefits of this minimally-invasive technique. Per Dr. Pennings, his colleagues were amazed that I didn't need to spend several days in the ICU, much less get discharged the following day! I'm fortunate to be able to work from home, so my total time out of work was 3 business days.

I hadn't needed any narcotics following the ACDF last year (just acetaminophen), but this time has been different. The cut rib and the pain of the lung having reinflated into its usual space has been significant. It was about 8 days post-op before I could go through the night without medication and then another couple of days before I could sleep through the night without waking. The WORST is when I cough or sneeze. The pain literally brings me to my knees.

I understand this is not unusual given the inevitable damage to the nerves that run along the ribs, but I'm hopeful that it will fade with time (it sometimes doesn't!!) The consulting thoracic surgeon also said that the rib will/should grow back together and reconnect... I'm still trying to get details on how best to encourage this. I expect to be back on my motorbike and back on the basketball court by the first week in May!

[tedk]

My prior post was not intended to usurp newhere's thread, but I wanted to share my current experience with a T6-T7 herniated as well.

[longroadahead]

I had an inversion table for a couple of months but didn't do anything pain relief wise and took up a lot of room. Had a hard time selling it as well.

I don't think this would cure a disc but it is probably worth a try. Would pick up a used one if this is possible to give it a try first.

[dshobbies]

tedk,

Perhaps you can start a new thread - the fact that you're 11 days post-op and feeling as good as you do is fantastic.

However, regardless of your 1 day discharge, this sounds like a pretty invasive surgery and pain goes along with it. I wouldn't push getting ready to be back to yourself by May as rushing and pushing yourself is counter-productive. When dealing with your spine, taking is slow is the best way to go.

I must also say and I don't really know why but it almost seems like taking it slow is not in your genes! Just a feeling I get

Good luck to you, Dale

[newhere]

Originally Posted by tedk

My prior post was not intended to usurp newhere's thread, but I wanted to share my current experience with a T6-T7 herniated as well.

its good to hear you storry. doesent mather if its on my thread,but it will be good also to open yours
can you tell me did you go to discography before surgery or the herniation(big???) was clearly visible on MRI?
tnx

[jsewell]

Tedk
HOme in one day , you are really pushing it. I had VATS procedure to remove some painful thoracic discs. I did have a severe complication of the surgery where the surgeon damaged the phrenic nerve that controls the diaphram muscle, so my stay was long.
But any time the chest is entered it is major surgery. Please take meds if you need them, and don't head to your motorbike in the beginning of May. I have had lots of surgery and used to rush back to trail running, my love, but these last 3 have me slowed down. I want things to heal properly. sorry for the lecture.
I had lung surgery a few months after the vats, and my ribs hurt for like 6 months, but better all the time. now my side seems to hurt when i yawn , possibly scar tissue. I did rush back into it just to prove to myself that i could still be athletic with severe lung damage so i see where you are coming from.
be careful
judy

newhere
how are you doing? did you get the inversion table yet? any more happening with your thoracic problem? How about depression? Is it under control? I worry about you like you are my own son. I do have a 25 year old son and that is why i would hate for this pain to be happening to him as i do not like it happening to you
judy

[newhere]

Im on the same spot all the time. i get my inversion table,fut not using it very offten because my lower back hurt so much vhen i invert..
will go to Bonn where Mark goes to have discography.
my depression..hm...we can talk realy alot about this. at my age,depression is big...i take some antidpressants.
thank you for carring
keep finger crossed for my low back surgery soon...
all the best
P.S. How are you now?

[jsewell]

I forgot the date or never knew of your lower back surgery. I hope this helps you in that area and takes away all the pain.
i'm glad you are having a discography again. This one better work. I'm sure Mark is sending you to a good doctor and all will be fine.

The depression will clear up when you get rid of this pain and can begin to live to the fullest once again. Soon

I am dealing with lower back pain now, i've had 2 sets of epidural injections 1 month apart. I'm not sure if this one has helped yet, the first set did nothing. Besides stenosis i'm not sure what is going on in my lower back all the attention has been on my thoracic and cervical spine lately. Also looking at surgery to try to fix the nerve that DrRegan damaged that has made it hard for me to breathe since his surgery.

keep me posted about your dates so i can think of you
judy

[newhere]

what is worse?
pre-op thoracic pain or now this breathing issue???

[jsewell]

I was so very determined to get rid of that thoracic pain and knew i could not live like that.
So hard to say. I do not like being tired all the time, which i am because i use all my energy to breathe. I am or was very athletic and need to get back into as much as i can. I am able to hike as of 2 weeks ago and enjoy it so much, being away from it all. But not far or fast do to the breathing.
but i could live like this for awhile , the pain not so long. Only if the breathing got worse i would need to be on oxygen all the time , now i am not on any at all and want some to exercise with. But i can't seem to convince my pulmonologist.
So i could not live with the horrible thoracic pain , it was worse. Only if the breathing remained stable, no guarantees either of that.

[newhere]

Originally Posted by jsewell

I was so very determined to get rid of that thoracic pain and knew i could not live like that.
So hard to say. I do not like being tired all the time, which i am because i use all my energy to breathe. I am or was very athletic and need to get back into as much as i can. I am able to hike as of 2 weeks ago and enjoy it so much, being away from it all. But not far or fast do to the breathing.
but i could live like this for awhile , the pain not so long. Only if the breathing got worse i would need to be on oxygen all the time , now i am not on any at all and want some to exercise with. But i can't seem to convince my pulmonologist.
So i could not live with the horrible thoracic pain , it was worse. Only if the breathing remained stable, no guarantees either of that.

o man...this sucks i hope you will fix this breathing problems...lately i have chest pain when taking deep breath...it so anoying...

[dshobbies]

Judy,

I have asthma and have been in a full attack, on and off, for about 3 months now. I know how exhausting breathing can be and liken it to your condition. I have my meds and can go on steroids to suppress the whole thing but living like this - I understand your difficulties.

I do hope this surgery mostly fixes your problems and you don't have to live where simple breathing is an obstacle that cannot be overcome. Good luck,

Dale

[jsewell]

An update on me.
i had the surgery all set with the neurosurgeon agreeing to do it and had a thoracic surgeon in mind. THen the neurosurgeon spoke with my pulmonologist on monday and the whole idea of surgery is off. I cried all day and still some today.
My pulmonologist was never for investigating the nerve and he believed there is no one to fix it. So i find a surgeon, perhaps one of 2 in the country , but the one who has studied this particular nerve and breathing for 20 years. He tells me to find a place to have the nerve tested. It is a rare procedure. well i did at Cedars and the doctors both agreed he did an awesome job. But somehow the pulmonologist convinced the surgeon that he would do more harm than good (and he did not even know anyone could fix the nerve) I am really upset about this. I would like to make it up the stairs without having to stop and breathe at the top. I do not improve with any medications. My pulmonologist says i will improve yet he told me no improvement yet that nite after testing and i have been hiking.

Sorry this was a big rambled thing, i am just so upset as i had my hopes right up there . Now i will always be tired all day, and that sucks. No big mountains for me and that sucks too. No running after possible future grandkids. Oh i do feel a great loss.

thanks guys for caring., I care about you too.
judy

[dshobbies]

Judy,

I'm flabbergasted!

However, your doctor is only 1 of a handful of doctors doing this procedure. If your pulmonologist was able to convince him the surgery was a bad idea, maybe it really is. In my experience, doctors who have perfected their craft are pretty sure of what they can accomplish. Obviously, he's second guessing himself based on a discussion with another specialist and no longer feels assured of the benefit.

I don't blame you for crying and rambling. Your hopes have been dashed. I urge you to, at a saner time, talk to both doctors to discover what and why. The last thing you need is more damage.

Perhaps you might seek another pulmonologist's opinion. We all know different doctors have differing opinions. Maybe, maybe, maybe....

You are in my thoughts, Dale