waiting for solution

[kelly from ontario]

hi.im so glad i found this site.i have been off work for 1
1/2 yrs with lower back pain and both legs feel like i have an electric currant running down the back of my legs and into my feet.i cant sit or stand still for long.i can lie on my back and walk.i have bulging discs at l4/5,l5/si with a tear in annulus l4/5.my family physician wants me to just live like this but my orthopedic surgeon gave me a brochure on alphaklinik now known as atosklinik and i have been in contact with dr schubert there.he wants me to have a discography and i am very scared b ecause ive heard its terribly painful.please someone tell me its not so bad,i must have it but im not sure weather to have it in toronto or wait til germany.the doctor says ill either need endoscopic abrasion or adr.anyone had this.ive been in pain a long time and the drs seem to have no sympathy.im on morphine and lyrica which i coulnt live without.i spend alot of time in bed.i am appealing a denial for out of country ohip to pay for medical expenses in munich germany.i will go anyway and i hear its about 30,000 canadian for adr.very frustrated with the system.anyone know anything about atosklinik.need info on everything
kelly

[grantwb1]

IMHO you have found the best site on the net for your situation. I just was on the same meds you speak of for about a year before I had the abominal spinal fusion. I know it is early for me but I do feel releif in my legs and the only pain I am dealing with is surgical and bathroom diffaculties. I have had a previous spine surgery that I think that I could have been a little better educated about had I found this site. I know it is easier said than done but do not let pain hurry your decision. I took a year to decide basicly which doctor to use and oh my god!!! That really is the best decision I have ever made. I also had the blessing of finding Mark Mintzer who has been the most important person in my life since incuring all these problems. I still might have ended up in the same fused situation but I would be one crazy lunatic by now for sure without him. Insurance should pay for people like him.

I wish I could give you more advice about your condition but I had pars defects, then hardware failure, then spinal fusion. Feel free to PM me if you like.

[dshobbies]

Hi Kelly,

Welcome and you've come to the right place. Haven't heard about Dr. Schubert but others might have. If you're considering going to Germany, you also might want to look up Dr. Bertagnoli and Dr. Zeegers, considered the best in the world by a lot of people. Also can't comment on Canadian health care.

Discography (disogram) is very painful although necessary. However, the fear of this test almost prevented me from going to Dr. Bertagnoli in Germany. I had this test in the US under anesthesia and I couldn't understand why it was necessary without it. Some doctors think the anesthesia can alter the results of the test and for me, that was true. To tell you the truth, I didn't even fear childbirth as much as I did this test. And I'm here to tell you, those fears were a complete waste of my time.

To specifically define your pain generators, the pain must be reproduced. But before you can scream out, the pain has already subsided. The peak of the pain lasts 1 second. Stubbing your toe is worse because though the pain might not peak at a 10, maybe just a 9, it lasts for a much longer time.

I've written this same thing over and over again so no one else fears this test as I did. Until me... all I ever heard was how horrible this test was. I had 4 levels tested. After the first level, which did produce a level 10 pain or maybe even an 11, I stopped fearing the test. We all can survive 1 second of pain. We survive electric shocks and paper cuts and biting our tongues and even stubbing our toes. We don't fear reaching for door knobs, opening envelopes, chewing our foods or walking around barefoot (if you live in So. Calif.)

It's also a good idea to wait until you're ready for surgery because this test can negatively affect the discs involved, creating even more pain. And also, since you're already on morphine, you might want to consult a pain management doctor prior to any surgery to ensure your post surgical pain can be controlled.

We know none of your specifics other than you're suffering. If you've tried non-invasive treatments with no results, perhaps it is time to consider surgery. Only you can decide if it's right for you but suffering as you have for 1 1/2 years is a long time. You also must know that surgery does not guarantee a positive result so should you choose this route, educate yourself as much as you can before making an informed decision. Ask questions until you're satisified with your personal understanding and seek second and third opinions as necessary.

Good luck to you, Dale

[Nihola and Bernard]

We understand your frustration with the Canadian medical system when it comes to back injury. Canada is woefully behind in techniques and research regarding the spine. Bernard's from Ontario too, just outside Goderich, although now we are in BC. We've had years of backward thinking specialists who only wish to hold on to the little they know, and who care little for the difficulties their patients endure. We had one particular neanderthal in Kitchener, who actually pushed Bernard when he was questioned in his diagnosis that nothing was wrong with B's back, and that he was simple trying to fool the system. Anyway, it's very very true that people have a tough time understanding unless they've experienced something similair. I feel for you and hope you have someone, or better yet a few people, in your life who care for you and understand. It's terrible to be alone with this sort of thing. Feel free to contact us, Canadians have our own particular challenges in getting the help we need. We have email and a website: bernardsnewback.ca

[kelly from ontario]

so thankful to have someone who understands.i started off on tylenol # 3 and bedrest for about 2 months then progressed to morphine.the nerve pain in my legs got worse and i was put on lyrica which i thank god for every day.ive had 4 epidural cortisone shots which had moderate short term relief.i did physio for 4 months and am waiting for neurosurgeon appt in canada.has anyone heard anything about the alphaklinik?dr zeegers used to work there.i heard he is at betaklinik now.i have applied for funding to go to alphaklinik,munich germany but if i am paying my own way i would appreciate any advice from patients of other docs.its sad that i have to leave canada but i just dont think i can wait 2 yrs to see specialist.dale,thanks for the reassurance re the discography because i have literally had anxiety attacks thinking about it.someone suggested waiting to just prior to surgery and i think that may be wise but the doctors at alphaklinik want those results before they decide what surgery is needed.
i havent stood still for 16 months.i always have to sway and move my feet slightly to keep pain from building in feet.anyone else have this?i almost cried this afternoon when i realized i could talk to people who could give me informed advise.my dr asked me if i thought decompression therapy might help.(how would i know?)i will read every word and soak up any advise you can give.thank god mark started this site!hope to talk to him and thank him myself.good night all kelly

[dshobbies]

Kelly,

If you're seriously thinking about Germany, please talk to Mark about getting consultations with Drs. Bertagnoli and Zeegers. Dr. Z used to be at the Alphaklinik but he is the one you want, not the center (IMHO). I know Dr. B prefers to do his own discogram and I think Dr. Z does too. I know the anxiety you carry for this test. Been there, done that! The two doctors above are meticulous. Please don't waste your energies on this test. Believe what I tell you. It hurts but for just a moment. I can't speak for other doctors but I'm sure others can.

For this or any consultation you'll need current x-rays and MRI.

I hope you are able to manuever around your medical system. Living with this constant pain is a waste of time and the sooner you find your solution, the better.

Good luck, Dale

[Maria]

Sorry to hear the Canadian system is *that* slow re spinal care.. wow.. I'd be having anxiety attacks as well thinking I had to wait that long in a very bad condition.

Ditto on communicating with Mark~ he can really help you out..

Re discograms.. I've had 3. All with some level of sedation tho truthfully I'd do it w/o if it meant the best diagnosis and moving on and expediting spinal care.

Best of luck with your whole spinal journey

[Katie]

Nihola and Kelly, I just popped in here and was pleased to see more Canadians on board

Kelly, I sent you a PM. Nihola, there is a very good surgeon in New Westminster who is doing ADR. If you send me an email, I can forward his contact information.

I have to run, but wanted to just say hi and pass on some information.

[mmglobal]

katie, please share the name of the surgeon you know... may as well put it out there for those who may follow be searching in the future.

Thanks for contributing!

Mark

[Katie]

The surgeon in the BC lower mainland is Dr. Mark Matishak, from the Royal Columbian I believe. He only takes patients from his home province however, and I lost out on a booked appointment with him when he decided to enforce that policy.

I was disappointed at the time, but everything has worked out for the best, so no problems. His office staff is wonderful and he comes highly recommended. I believe he has trained in Germany also.

Good luck with everything!

[Nihola and Bernard]

Thanks for the name of the bc doctor. I haven't been on ispine for awhile. We've been waiting for 9 months to see a different doctor here in BC, only to find out today that he doesn't even want to see Bernard, and thinks there is nothing he can do. Very disapointing day, will any of these doctors ever give a %$&@? He did recommended to our family doctor to contact a doctor in New West Minster. It turns out to be Dr. Matishak.

So tonight I just thought I'd do a search on Dr. Matishak, get some info. Seems to be good press on this fellow, so there may be a light here. We'll see. It did cheer me up to do a search on him and end up back on ispine!

thanks, hope you're all doing well.

[cherylstewart67]

i have looked into what is called "travel tourisum" and it's in high demand. i bet there is a market for it somehow. What about it Mark? I know a travel agent that may be able to help....Just thinking out loud. So sad that peps from the great US of A must go outsoide country to get things done. When will the FDA see that adr is the way to go?

[LangleyM]

Hi, I'm new here. I was searching PRODISC L recovery expectations when I found iSpine.. I have double prodisc L implant surgery scheduled in a little over 7 weeks. It's on the bottom two disks, both have been operated on in the past. The first was in 93 after a work accident, and again in 2007 to relieve compressed nerves, unfortunately a little late, so I have nerve damage. The second surgery was performed by the aforementioned surgeon from New Westminster, he is also doing the double disc implants. I can say I have complete confidence in his abilities He had suggested Germany as I need six discs, (Yes I have six lumbar?) and in Germany they will do three at a time, but as I said it was a work accident and even me offering to pay 100% would basically null & void future coverage. (different blog Dr. M said it would be a year before another two can be put in... and same if I need a 3rd operation. I'll let you know how the first two take in a couple of months. Note. I do work with a fellow that had one implant done a few years ago by Dr. M and he has never felt better, he states he's 100%, so I'm optimistic for a 33.3% improvement Anyway, I hope I'll be giving a positive update in June. Good Luck all, keep the chin up

[dshobbies]

Hi LangleyM and welcome to the forum,

I'm glad you found a doctor in whom you have trust. It's often a difficult process.

And did I read correctly, you need 6 ADRs in your lumbar spine? The max I've ever heard of was 5. 5 level Fred is doing quite well but what a huge undertaking - and 3 surgeries.

Why don't you start a new thread and give us a little more of you circumstances.

Dale