lipitor

[Gil Denis]

Hello
Does any one take lipitor or other statin drugs?
I was told to stop taking 10 mg of Lipitor due to side effects and nerve damage.
STATINS MAY CAUSE NERVE DAMAGE
A Danish study reports that some people who took statin drugs to lower cholesterol developed a type of nerve damage called polyneuropathy. Polyneuropathy is characterized by tingling, numbness and burning pain as well as decreased sensitivity to temperature or pain. When a person suffers nerve damage, a doctor is supposed to look for a cause, such as diabetes, lack of vitamin B12, Lyme disease, kidney disease, thyroid disease or alcohol abuse. People who had taken statins and developed polyneuropathies were checked for known causes of nerve damage. Researchers showed that people taking statins were 4 to 14 times more likely to develop polyneuropathy than those who did not take statins. Statins include Lescol, Lipitor, Mevacor, and Pravachol. Check with your doctor about any side effects from your medications.
Reference: Neurology May 14, 2002;58:1321-1322, 1333-1337

Well see if this is my leg nerve problem.
Two EPI and no results.
What do you think?
Gil

[ImpOssibleOne]

I've heard that about Lipitor. Going off it is definitely worth a try.
I guess you'll have to eat judiciously, but I'd eat nothing but celery molecules to get to the bottom of this numbness.

[twisted]

Thats a really worrying side effect. I've known that cholesterol lowering meds can cause muscle pain as my hubby has that side effect and it's well documented. He'll be thrilled I'm sure to hear of another potential nasty one especially as he's having cervical issues already. I hope it's not connected!

[Maria]

I had started Zocor and was not on it regularly for less than 2 weeks probably but started feeling the quadracepts ache/burn that I use to get from my low back episodes. I wasn't experiencing any of the back prob so I contributed it to the medicine.

I also felt sort of hyper agitated but that may have been for other reasons. I stopped the drug and have not restarted it. My cholesterol is 269 and my LDL is 188. Family history of cardiac dx/strokes.

Just saw my PCP who recommended staying off the drug and retesting values. Referral to Cardiologist as well and diagnostic testing scheduled (anxiety related chest pain/pressure is my dx but has to be followed up per my PCP since I presented w/symptoms).

I did not like what I felt in my quads at all as this pain has been well managed for years with Gabapentin 1800mg/day and Methadone 12.5mg/day and ESIs 2-3x/year (mostly the drugs tho).

[wilsonrob]

I was on Lipitor everyday for 6 years. I had lots of muscle and nerve problems but I also had so many orthopedic problems. Regardless I stopped Lipitor against my doctor's wishes and feel good about it. My cholestrol with Lipitor is 170 and without is 230. I need to monitor.

[Terry Allen Blackburn]

In spite of the fact that I am a hard core exercise junkie, my cholesterol makes me a heart attack waiting to happen. Statin drugs damn near killed me, due to the pain of taking them, with muscles aches and such. I have been on Tricor and Zetia for several years now which keeps my triglycerides and cholesterol in check without the side effects. Definitely worth a try.

Terry Newton

[wilsonrob]

Terry,

Thanks for the suggestion. Call me sometime. Left my number as a pm to you.

[ans]

More stuff to worry about w/Lipitor aside from the dangerous muscle pain, etc.

Am too nervous to get off it as I'm chubbed and not exercising that would help the good/bad cholesterol ratios.

Am getting worked up for sometimes acute stomach pain by a new GI. What's great is that most of my meds can cause this.

Y'all be careful. Yeah, I'll take it - not ideal.

Be well people. That includes you Maria! - ans

[labeng]

Hello!

Some of you may or may not remember me, I haven’t posted in any of the forums for quite some time. I had 2 level Prodisc Surgery back in November of 2003. I had an experience a little over a year ago that I would like to share, anyone with high cholesterol should read it. I apologize ahead of time for it being a little lengthy.

Prior to my back surgery in 2003, I had my pre-surgical physical. At the time the doctor told me that I was very healthy but my cholesterol was quite high, I don’t recall the exact numbers now but the total was in the neighborhood of 280 or so. I brushed it off, I was about to have major spine surgery and my cholesterol was the least of my concerns at the time. Besides, I was totally against taking any kind of statin drug because of a few articles that I had read claiming that high cholesterol was mainly a medical community conspiracy and that it wasn’t necessarily bad for you.

In May of 2007 I had a physical and again I was lectured about my cholesterol, this time it was 299 in spite of my efforts at a healthy lifestyle. The doctor essentially scared me into finally start taking Vytorin. I was 49 at the time and years ago my father had bypass surgery when he was in his mid fifties, I did not want that….no way!

A few months later, (Aug. 2007) I was on the treadmill warming up into a speed walk. I had been doing 5 mile race-walking 4 days a week. After around a mile into it I realized that I didn’t feel right, I can’t explain it really, other than I just didn’t feel right. No pain or anything like that, just a sensation of not being well. It wasn’t enough to make me stop but I was concerned. This happened a few more times so I went to the doctor and explained it. He examined me and said that I was in great shape. My blood pressure has always been low, around 105/65 and my heart rate at rest is 50-54. He said that he wanted me to go to a cardiologist anyway and get a stress test since my cholesterol was high for some time and also because my father had heart disease.

I had gotten a referral from a family member that works at Hoag Hospital here in Newport Beach. I was fortunate to get an appointment with one of the most respected cardiologists here in the area. I went 15 minutes on an average 9-minute treadmill stress test. And even at that, my heart rate never did get up over 150, 2 minutes after the test was over it was back into the 70’s. I felt fine during the whole test. After looking at the results, he said that I have a great capacity for exercise and that my heart is in great shape. So I left there figuring that it would be the last time that I would ever see him.

A few weeks had gone by and I continued with my regular exercise regime. Once in a while I would get that same sensation of not feeling right but I learned to quit worrying about it since I had a clean bill of health. Then one Friday afternoon, while I was working on the computer, I started getting a pain in my left chest that would sometimes go up into my neck. It would last a few seconds and then fade away, then return a few minutes later and do the same. We had plans of driving to Arizona the following morning, which included a 4-hour drive across the California desert. Suddenly I had visions of being out in the middle of nowhere and having a heart attack! I discussed it with my wife and that evening we decided to go over to the hospital and have it checked out, just in case.

I have to tell you, there is no such thing as waiting in the ER when you say “chest pain” Within 3 minutes I was hooked up to tubes wires and hoses, I had a portable xray machine taking pictures and people drawing blood from both arms. All of this while being drilled by various doctors and nurses on how I was feeling and what the exact symptoms were. They slapped a nitro patch on and by that time the pains had subsided. After 4 hours of tests, the ER doctor came in and said that everything was perfect, EKG, chest Xrays, and enzymes, nothing wrong. So we left the hospital and I was embarrassed, I felt like the boy who cried wolf, I was starting to feel like a hypochondriac

I had explained that Friday night of chest pains and the ER to my family doctor. He told me that I need to stop thinking about heart attacks, that with all the talk of cholesterol, statin drugs and stress tests, It may have been psychologically induced pain. He said: “you have an athletic heart, stop worrying about it. Go home, relax and have a glass of wine”.

Another few weeks went by, it was in late October, and it was around 4:30 in the morning when I started my workout. About 2 miles into my warm up on the treadmill, my chest suddenly felt very tight, not painful, just real tight. I was breathing normally for that speed but wasn’t getting satisfied, like as if I were up real high in altitude. I stopped right away, it scared me. As soon as I stopped everything went back to normal. I called and made an appointment with the cardiologist who I thought I would never see again. He set me up for another stress test but this time they would do an echocardiogram before and right after getting off the treadmill. He said that it would definitely show if there were any sign of strain on the heart.

So a week later I did the second stress test and again passed without any indication of a heart problem on their equipment. During the test I told him that I could feel that sensation of not being well but everything looked good on the EKG so he had me continue on. When it was over I told him that I didn’t care what the tests revealed, I knew something was not right. I am very in tune with my body and I just knew something was wrong. He gave me the option of having an angiogram, which would show 100 percent if there were any cardiovascular problems. I thought about it but not for very long, I knew it would be the only way to prove me wrong. So the angiogram was scheduled for the following Friday, Nov. 16th.

They gave me a tranquilizer and numbed the area in the groin where they go in. I could not directly see the monitor at that time; he had it turned directly at him so he could see it better as he was fishing the catheter up the artery. He told me that it was in place and that he was going to send in the dye that would fill up the cardiac arteries and make them visible on the monitor. I heard him say: “that’s not good”. He turned the monitor towards me and I could now see all of the arteries, he pointed out a 90-95% blockage right at a bifurcated intersection in the left anterior descending artery. They refer to it as the ‘widow maker’ He asked how I was feeling, I told him okay. He said that he couldn’t put in a stint because of it being in the middle of the bifurcation. He said that because of where the blockage was, being that it was so high up and feeding such a large section of heart, that if I were to have a heart attack, I would die. Possibly even right then and there in the hospital. Essentially I was lying there lucky to be alive. He said he feared a massive heart attack at any moment.

I could see the look of surprise on his face as so many things went racing through my mind, he was as shocked about it as I. They immediately took me up to the ICU and put me on a nitro IV drip. They babysat me until the following morning at 6:00 AM when they did an open-heart bypass, they bumped the scheduled patient for that morning to the next day. The surgeon discussed the operation with me beforehand. They couldn’t do a minimally invasive bypass because of size and location, which could end up being more risky than an open-heart approach if the bypass had failed.

Even though I suspected that there was something wrong after passing every test, this caught me completely off guard, this I was not expecting. I thought that at the very most, maybe he would find a small narrowed artery that medication could solve. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think that I would be having emergency open-heart surgery at age 49. Horribly scary, I will say though at least it all happened so fast that I didn’t even have time to think and worry about it too much.

No one knows why such a severe blockage could not be detected by all of the tests, or why I felt great most of the time. Fortunately I was persistent, I knew there was something wrong. I realize that I am lucky to be here writing this today. I also realize that had I listened to that first doctor that told me that I needed to go on statins almost 6 years ago, I may have escaped having my chest split open like a lobster! It’s been proven that an LDL in the 70’s can actually reverse the effects of atherosclerosis caused by cholesterol.

I wish that I did not have to take statin drugs because there is no question, there are side effects and it can be damaging to the liver so it must be monitored properly. I realize that because of some of the side effects, some people can’t tolerate them. But many people can tolerate them. Listen people, if you do have high cholesterol, you need to get it down! Do not wait like I did! Do not brush it off and think “that won’t happen to me” Diet and exercise alone is sometimes not enough if you are genetically high. Do what you have to but get it down, don’t wait!!!

Regards,
Larry

[ans]

Larry, I hope that you are OK now. What you went through is truly scary.

When you had your scares, did the ER docs take your cardiac enzymes e.g. troponin levels to determine if you were having a heart attack?

I agree with you to take this seriously. Not working out is almost enough to have me risk a one/two level fusion as I'm over 55.

You take care. - Allan

[Kathy]

This is such a scary issue, as I know lots of 'healthy people' (people who exercise, eat right, don't smoke and don't drink) who have had heart attacks. My father in law can not take statins and has to have stints put in at least yearly. He takes some other stuff, and is very healthy, yet his genetics are such that he has high cholesterol. With his history, I sent my husband a few years back to get his cholesterol checked (he was in his mid-30's, so I figured it was time). When it came back in the 230's, I was up his rear about his diet and getting it down.

Well, a couple weeks later, I had a physical and the dr. checked my cholesterol. I thought, I'm too young for high cholesterol, I was 25 at the time. Well, the results came back, and my cholesterol was in the 280's! I tried diet and exercise, I'm not over weight or anything. I couldn't get it down on my own. I also have a family history of high cholesterol, with both my mom and dad having it. I now take Vytorin daily and it has lowered it considerably. My hubby also takes Vytorin and it works for him too. I have tried periodically to get off the Vytorin and get it lowered, but it is always too high without it. I have tried herbal remedies, all to no avail. So, I just take the Vytorin. It's a hard choice to take it or not, with all the bad side effects; but the other side of the coin is a possible heart attack, heart damage or death... a double edged sword.

Larry- So glad that you are ok and are alive to speak about it! My uncle just suffered a massive heart attack two weeks ago and lived through it. Luckily, one of his sons had stopped by to visit and called 911. They said without his son there that he would have died. He is in his early 50's, skinny, healthy eater, active, a light drinker, and a non-smoker. Just goes to show that heart attacks don't discriminate.

Best of luck to all of you in making the cholesterol decision,
Kathy

[dshobbies]

Hi Larry,

It's nice to meet you. I'm sorry that you had to have what I've heard is a very hard surgery but am very glad you stayed with it. Often, we are our own best advocates and you knew something was wrong. It's your body, end of discussion.

I am glad to see your back is doing well and that all else seems to be fine. i hope you stay that course.

Dale

[Terry Allen Blackburn]

Your story is a classic one for heart disease in young males. Your persistence paid off though as most males would be in denial all the way to the grave with those symptoms. I also wish I would have taken care of my high cholesterol when I was younger. I have been on medications for years now but knew of my condition in my latter 20's. I am thankful my cholesterol and triglycerides are within a tolerable range currently.

Glad to hear you are doing well.

Terry Newton

[labeng]

You are right on Kathy, it is a double edge sword. I would also like to add that if anyone is taking a statin, to also start taking CoQ10 as a supplement, it can really help with muscle aches and it’s good for the heart. It’s an enzyme that your body produces naturally but taking statins will deplete it. I take 200mg/day. Sam’s Club or Costco is about the cheapest that I have found.

Allan, they did do all of those blood tests while I was in the ER that night but they all came back negative. I never did have a heart attack, there is no way I would have survived one. But it’s my understanding that even angina chest pain can be detected by the level of those enzymes….usually…..

I was pretty much back to normal in 3-4 months, but worked extremely hard to achieve that. I was in the cardiac rehab gym almost everyday. It really paid off though, that and being only 49 at the time made for a quick recovery. At 4 months out it was like it never even happened. I am at 15 months now and still feel great heart wise

I wish I could say the same for my back. Aside for some on and off facet pain over the years, which I managed quite well with occasional rhizotomies, my back has been pretty good….up until last June. I started having some new pain symptoms and have found out that my L4-L5 Prodisc is autofusing, which is causing stenosis. Not sure what I am going to do at this point, just waiting to see.

Regards,
Larry

[mmglobal]

Larry, thanks for posting. Your story hits close to home as I've been watching slightly high cholesterol for several years now. It's not high enough that they are recommending statins, but it's definitely out of normal range. Your story is a great wake-up call for me to take this all a little more seriously.

BTW, you'll find photos of Larry on the GPN pages from the Jan 06 GPN Party and the Sept 04 Zeegers Lunchoen and Party. I'm happy to say that in 2009 he looks even fitter. (A little more salt in the beard, but not as much as me!) You'll also find many other forum regulars and a bunch of oldies. (A few name changes... Utah back is now Annapurna. Feelinfine is no Nomorepain.)

[runner]

Larry,

You are so fortunate to have kept bugging the doctors until you found out what was wrong with you.
People don't realize just because a test says you are healthy, does not mean you are. People can have normal EKGs and other tests. Even stress tests are not definitive.
Luckily, and I say this with all my heart, you were at Hoag. Which for people who don't live in this area, is one of the best hospitals around and probably has the best cardiovascular center.
The symptoms you had, tightness in the chest, a feeling of unwellness, are easily symptoms of a heart being starved of oxygen.
And I know too many athletes, who are in great shape and have great blood pressure and heart rates, and have had arterial blockages.
Sorry you could not be treated with a stent, but glad your recovery from bypass surgery was quick.

runner

[labeng]

You are right about the beard getting gray Mark, the only reason I don’t shave it off is because the hair on my head is bit more sparse these days so I’m looking to keep as much hair as I can.

You are right Runner, Hoag is tied with Loma Linda Medical Center for being #1 in cardiac care. Again I am/was lucky, they are only a few minutes away from me. As I said, I have a family member who works there and she had clued me in on their stats while I was waiting for surgery, it did make it a little more comforting knowing that.

I was persistent and it most definitely paid off. But I will have to tell you, it was tough convincing them, I really was feeling like a hypochondriac towards the end. But if you ever get that feeling, that indescribable feeling of suddenly not being well, you will know for sure that something is truly wrong. You will know that it’s not indigestion or heartburn or anxiety or stress or any of those things….no matter what they all say.

I don’t mean to start a panic with anyone, just an awareness. What happened to me is out of the norm. All the tests that I had prior to surgery are typically very reliable. It’s because of their reliability that I did have such a problem conveying that something was wrong.

Regards,
Larry

[fuzzy]

Larry, I am glad your doctor listened to you and did the revealing test.

I have always been concerned with my Cholesterol which I have been checking for close to 20 years now. In my 30 it started rising and by my late 30s my doctor commented that I am still low risk but borderline as I am slim, fit, non smoke, drink etc. But it kept rising. So finally as I clicked 40 I wend on low dose statins and now perfect numbers. I really hope that it is true and these medication do work beyond their side effect. especially since I have been diagnosed with polyneuropathy. I hope it will not be made worse by the statins!

[fuzzy]

Thanks for sharing your important story, Larry. I am glad your doctor listened to you and did that so important test.

I have always been concerned with my Cholesterol which I have been checking for close to 20 years now. In my 30s it started rising and by my late 30s my doctor commented that I am still low risk but borderline as I am slim, fit, non smoke, drink etc. But it kept rising. So finally as I clicked 40 I went on low dose statins and now perfect numbers. I really hope that it is true and these medications do work beyond their side effects. especially since I have been diagnosed with polyneuropathy. I hope it will not be made worse by the statins!

[mmglobal]

When Larry first told me about his ordeal, my first thought was, "I wonder if he could have had a minimally invasive bypass instead of the big thoracotomy/open surgery?" My accountant had a major bypass surgery without having his chest cracked. It turns out that Larry was with the same group of doctors. Hoag is great... we are lucky to have access to it.

Mark

[Gil Denis]

Hi All
This is a great thread.
Thanks Larry for your story. I stopped taking Lipitor 11 days ago and will be taking natural products to detox my system.My leg pain is getting better and getting stronger over all?
Statin does deplete you of CoQ10 it is a poison. My new Dr said with my numbers he would of never put me on this drug.
We are doing several test this week.
Started me on B12 injections for starters.
Having heart issues takes priority over my back issues
Take care all

Gil

[mmglobal]

Great discussion... thanks all for participating.

I just wanted to link a related thread: http://www.ispine.org/forum/ispine/1...hest-pain.html

[dshobbies]

Just a warning to those in denial -

After the '94 Northridge earthquake (we're 5 miles away) I had an anxiety attack. Thinking it was a heart attack, we rushed to the hospital where I was given a clean bill of health. The doctors told me something very interesting;

"WOMEN COME RUNNING AND MEN DIE"

Years prior, a good friend of ours died because he refused to go to the emergency room, claiming all he had was indigestion, for a full day. His wife went to bed angry because he wouldn't go. His massive heart attack was preventable!

Why do we maximize all symptoms related to our backs and minimize those pertaining to the rest of our bodies? Human nature I guess.

[trkdoc714]

I've been blessed with normal cholesterol and blood pressure. I've taken it for granted until I injured my back. Now I keep getting told that with my physical condition I should be able to fly through all of the surgeries I've been offered (sounds like part of a sales pitch to me). When I weighed this morning I was still well within my target BMI and although I've lost muscle tone, I've been able to stay in shape (relatively speaking).

There are so many unnoticed warning signs of cardiac events it's wise to be concerned at even hints of problems. My former supervisor was driving home from work in December. He felt the signs of a heart attack. Instead of driving the rest of the home, he turned around and went to the ER. Luckily for him, he did that. He was told if he had gone home and called 911 he wouldn't have made it. It turned out to be a torn aorta. They were able to repair it with synthetic tissue and he was back to work in January.

After reading about the various medical problems of a lot of my fellow I-Spiners, I feel very grateful mine are minor in comparison.

I wish you all better health in the near future.

Bob

[Justin]

Larry, great to see you posting and glad to hear your issues were taken care of...we'll have to catch up!

Bob, about your supervisor...wow aortic dissections usually result in death. Very wise of him to go to the ER ASAP.

Click on the link below for comprehensive guidelines concerning cholesterol. It is well worth it to read the entire report. It includes risk factors, drug therapies, "optimal" values for LDL (bad cholesterol) // HDL (good cholesterol) // Triglycerides // Total Cholesterol, etc.

Third report of the National Cholesterol Education Program (NCEP) Expert Panel on Detection, Evaluation, and Treatment of High Blood Cholesterol in Adults (Adult Treatment Panel III)

[labeng]

Hi Justin!

Wow, it’s been a long time. I remember when we met back in 04 at the luncheon Mark put on with Dr. Yeung. Time flies, eh? I have been trying to catch up here, it’s been so long since I have lurked around on the forums. I’ve read some of what you are experiencing now, I’m sorry, that really sucks…..

Thanks for the link on the cholesterol, that’s very good information. It’s really important to know what risk category you fall into, it really effects what your cholesterol target should be.

My triglycerides were low and my HDL cholesterol was high. What got me into trouble was that even though those two components were very good, it wasn’t good enough to offset the horribly high LDL, I believe it was 230.

For those of you that need to get your cholesterol down but can’t take a statin, ask your doctor about possibly trying Niaspan, which is timed release vitamin B3 (Niacin). You still need to monitor your liver enzymes while on it but it because of the dosage amount. But some people can tolerate it much more than a statin. I’m actually on a combination of both and my LDL is currently in the 70’s.

Regards,
Larry

[treefrog]

I have found this blog to be very interesting, and I thought I would post a link here for anyone here for whom it might be of benefit.

The Heart Scan Blog

[Gil Denis]

Hi All
I`ve been off lipitor now for three weeks and taking Fish Oils, CoQ10,B12,etc
just received my new blood work and my numbers are better but still not great, time will tell
I also have Leaky Gutmore stuff to take.
Moving on

Gil