New Back Patient Requesting Information

[kapona]

Hi Everyone.

I was directed to this site by my son who exchanges alot of information here. (Eddie G) He has been coming here for years and made alot of serious decisions for his treatment using information he got here. He said I should post my info and ask for help so here it is...

I had a fall in a parking lot back in August. I fractured my toe, I have shoulder pain, neck pain, knee pain, lower back pain and pain going down the right leg especially when laying down. I can't stand for too long without horrible pain. I cant do my job. I can't sleep at night because of the severe pain down my leg. I went to physical therapy which was a little helpful. I went to a pain management doctor and my CAT scan revealed 2 herniated discs at L2-L3 and L4-L5.
I would like to know if there are any options for my treatment?
I had an injection using a Flourscope. They injected Cortizone into my sciatic nerve but was not considered an epidural. I can't get an epidural injection because I take Coumadin for my mechanical aortic heart valve and I am at risk for blood clots so my options are limited.
What would be a good therapy for me? My son says I should try Neurontin but I don't know if I can take that with Coumadin.
Should I look into chiropractic therapy?

Thank you all in advance....

Carol

[dshobbies]

Hi Carol and welcome,

I'm so sorry that a fall left you with all these disabilities. You've gone to a pain management doctor and had a cat scan but have you seen a back specialist? Though surgery may be an option, a last option, you should consult with a neuro or ortho surgeon. Physical therapy, which helped a little may help more with the proper person and exercise. Ask your doctor for a recommendation. With your other medical history is may not be feasible but I found decompression relief with an inversion table, albeit not a permanant solution.

You need to know your options. How bad are your herniations? Neurontin may help but only your heart doctor can tell you how safe it is, and it also has side effects.

I would stay away from any chiropractic care that involves twisting or turning. I believe this is what actually ruptured my disc. So for now, a consult with a back surgeon or two is your first step.

Please keep us posted and I wish you better days,
Dale

[mmglobal]

Hi Carol, welcome to the forum.

I first met Eddie back in 2005 when he came to a patient seminar I hosted. Interesting guy... sorry about all his spine problems and now yours too. Most of the questions you ask are really question for the doctors. I used Neurontin to help with leg pain and it was effective for me. It didn't take it away, but it made it substantially better. I hope that your problems will respond to conservative treatment and you won't need surgery, but if you do... please... do your homework... make informed decisions.

All the best,

Mark

[Eddie G]

Hi Mom. I'm going to tell on you for the way you bend over, so now you're in BIG trouble! Whenever Mom bends over she locks her knees and bends at the hips. I have been telling her for years that that is the WORST thing she can do for her back. I always tell her to bend her knees but she says she will fall. I gave her a cane yesterday to help with that, and it did work when she tried it, but old habits are hard to break. Can someone back me up on this because I don't think she believes me. Is there any medical evidence to show that bending over like that is bad for the spine? I was always told that at work by the safety & medical people.

You're in trouble now Mom!!!!


The Coumadin really limits alot of what she can do. She can't eat anything with Vitamin K, any carrots, salads, anything that will naturally thin the blood. I heard they don't take Coumadin in Europe and they thin the blood through diet. That seems much healthier. I would hate to take a drug that would limit me eating salads, spinach & carrots. Can't the blood be thinned by eating aspirin, spinach & salads?

I gave Mom a cool cane to use when she needs to bend. It has a skull head handle! She will totally fit in at an outlaw biker bar now. Maybe it's time for an eyebrow piercing and some tattoos now!!!

[Maria]

The first thing I want to say I'm sorry Mom has gotten injured in this manner and suffering all this pain!

Eddie,
Here's my take on it as my mother was 83 when she passed away from a massive stroke and up until that day she bent over from the waist never bending her knees to pick anything up. I always thought she would fall on her head and injure herself but nope,nothing like that.

I personally think it depends on one's injuries and if there are herniations the degree and whether they bulge posteriorly or anteriorly as to whether one can bend at the waist or not with discomfort/problems.

I still bend over from the waist all the time and I've got disc bulges remaining at L4 and L5S1 (have had previous discectomies) and have an annular tear at L3. Of couse I am on pain medication and do get ESIs and I can tell when one has worn off as I cannot bend from the waist hardly without suffering the consequences of appearing like I'm 80 plus and need a cane myself!

If I happen to bend over too much and/or get caught during a bad time I can either end up with spasms and my back may actually go out hence needing a few days of bedrest which used to be weeks of bedrest and usually brought on by a bending at the waist motion (one too many times).

I've also had 2 right knee surgeries and there are times I cannot bend my knees without feeling the arthritic bother that's going on there or weakness in my knees.

So I think whatever your mother can best handle is Ok and if she doesn't already have a "grabber" she or you should purchase one of those to alleviate so much bending/reaching for things otherwise retrievable with this piece of equipment.

Again I do what is comfortable for me and when it hurts with that movement I stop and use "proper body mechanics" to retrieve things but again I am medicated and feeling OK when I bend from the waist and when I start getting achey cranky back stuff going on I usually have to resort to proper body mechanics.

[dshobbies]

OK Eddie, I'll back you up. Mom, you're in trouble now.

Truly, the best way to bend over is from the knees and lift with your thighs. Bending from the waist can be quite counter productive for your back and just like a bad reach or sneeze, can do more damage.

Everyone should always be cautious with their back and protect it but especially since you already have injuries, now is the time to be especially careful. You should also not twist or reach and brace yourself when you sneeze or cough. If you must reach or twist, like laundry and dishwasher duties, you should move slowly. Not taking care while doing pt could possibly be the reason you didn't find the relief you sought.

As a mother and grandmother, I will swallow my pride and tell you that sometimes, Mom doesn't know best. Just ask my kids. My grandchildren still think I'm pretty great though.

Please take care, Dale

[Eddie G]

I love my Grabber™... They gave me one at the hospital before I checked out. Well, they didn't GIVE it to me until I GAVE them $20. Definitely worth it.

Now I just need a Grabber™ to pick up the Grabber™!!!!

[johnb]

Eddie,

You are right about the grabber. I have two grabbers so I'm am dual grabbing SOB. Our cat is especially oportunistic and I'll use the grabber to nip her tale if she is getting into something she shouldn't. Its good fun. (disclaimer: no animals were harmed during my recooperation from dynesys implantation or removal)

It is true, you should bend at your knees and not your spine. However, if you have good flexibility in your hamstrings it does not strain your back as much according to my PT. The reason people don't bend at the knees is simple. Bending at the waste uses less mechanical energy than bending at the knees according to some research I read. I've been a knee bending fool for quite sometime. I'm thinking knee replacement's are further along than disc replacements.

Johnb

[Maria]

Something else that might be helpful during acute periods esp. is placing something that one can sit on and easily reach down to pick things up if necessary such as in the kitchen. During my worst years I had a chair with wheels on it as I couldn't take things out of the oven bending over and squatting bothered my knees greatly because of arthritic changes and past surgery in right knee~ or just whatever might be comfortable to sit on and move forward with either a grabber or using one's own ability to bend.

I've also learned to have a light weight low stool type of thing that I can carry around and place where needed for when I'm really bad and have to work low to the ground doing something.

Another thing to consider is the vacumn (for women). I bought an Oreck as it's only 7 lbs and very reliable. I think now there are many lightweight vacumns on the market now. Also long handled cleaning tools so that you don't have to bend at all when mopping or scrubbing. To wipe surfaces get something that attaches drying surface to bottom of long handled item and don't bend at all or squat or get down on your knees.

If you can hire someone to clean for you as that saves lot's of bodily bother.